Putting without reading the green

[JasonK88S]

Originally Posted by AmazingWhacker

I do that a lot (I also 3 putt a lot).  I figure A.  I'm not very good at reading greens and B.  I'm not very good at striking putts . .  So I figure - why waste all that time lining up a putt when I'll probably pick the wrong line and then miss it anyway?

Well i think that this is the key to AimPoint. Helping guys like us FIND the correct "starting point" that way when we practice our putting we are actually doing constructive practice drills. We can practice all day long every day but we will never achieve our goals because what we are practicing is irrelevant to what NEEDS to be worked on. If I'm not mistaken, that is what AimPoint is targeting. Trying to get people to make the correct read so they know where to start their putts. This is probably the biggest problem with guys like you and I.... just simply not knowing where to "Aim"

[boogielicious]

That's why I went to AimPoint in the first place. I couldn't visually figure out what the slope was and then estimate the break.  I knew, as an engineer, that if the slope is X and the speed is Y, then the break should be an exact number.  But I couldn't find anything other than anecdotal information on figuring it out.  Made me crazy.

Then AimPoint came along and used physics.  All you need to figure out is the slope, angle of the putt to the slope, speed of green and distance to know the break.  1 & 2 are done with your feet.  3 can be found out from testing the practice green or from your very first putt.  4 can be found by pacing off the putt from the middle.  All can be done in 15 seconds.

The read is easy after some practice.  Then you need to hit it at your aim point with the correct speed.  That takes a bit more practice.

[saevel25]

I am a visual guy, i think i've only been confused twice last year on the break of a putt. I don't get fooled to often.

The problem is, some courses don't have consistant speed from practice green to there normal greens. I've been on courses were the stimp might be 1-1.5 higher for there course greens. Also, how do you measure stimp with out a stimp meter? I find that interesting that they give you charts that require stimp with no way to measure it with. Also, some courses don't keep track of the stimp, so asking is sometimes out of the question. Even then i've heard some courses say, they are between a 10-11, but some greens might be a 12 some might be a 10, depending on were there at, if they sit in the shade or in the sun.

[MSchott]

I'm not one for crouching behind my ball very often or looking from the other side. I size up putts as I walk up to the ball and if possible watch what the ball does after the approach shot. This is easier on my home course as I know the greens but serves me well most of time on other courses. When I'm not sure of the slope I will walk towards the pin. Of course I watch what happens to my partner's putts.

[ChrisSmith]

Probably luck, but it could be that you overthink/psych yourself out on the ones you read.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Also, how do you measure stimp with out a stimp meter? I find that interesting that they give you charts that require stimp with no way to measure it with.

Come up to see us and take a class. You don't need to know the stimp. You can measure it yourself. It's very easy and accurate..

Originally Posted by saevel25

Also, some courses don't keep track of the stimp, so asking is sometimes out of the question.

What the course tells you is irrelevant. I don't ask - I measure it myself, using AimPoint.

It's very easy. Takes 60-120 seconds.

[boogielicious]

Quote:

I am a visual guy, i think i've only been confused twice last year on the break of a putt. I don't get fooled to often.

That is a very good ability.  I couldn't seem to get good at it unless I took a long time and many angle to make the read.

[Fatphil]

just to expand on the Buckeye dude, I agree the mind takes it all in and "if" I hit the putt on the sweet spot I'm amazed that the putt is usually in or damn close to perfect.  That leads me to think that the biggest 'secret" to putting is getting your technique to the point where you hit or come close to the sweet spot.  If you hit it solid, the mind and natural hand eye coordination does the rest.

[saevel25]

Quote:

the mind and natural hand eye coordination does the rest.

The problem is with some people, the way the green sits, the way the clubhead looks, all changes how you line up. A lot of people can think they are lining up were they want and they might be lining up way right or left of there line. So the mind and eyes can be fooled, like when a tee box is pointing you towards a hazard, then you wonder why you end up hitting it in the water :p

[boogielicious]

Alignment takes practice for sure including in putting.  Also, optical illusions on the greens can alter your read.   I've noticed this a lot this year when my feet tell me one read but my eyes another.   I have learned to trust my feet.

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by saevel25

The problem is, some courses don't have consistant speed from practice green to there normal greens. I've been on courses were the stimp might be 1-1.5 higher for there course greens. Also, how do you measure stimp with out a stimp meter? I find that interesting that they give you charts that require stimp with no way to measure it with. Also, some courses don't keep track of the stimp, so asking is sometimes out of the question. Even then i've heard some courses say, they are between a 10-11, but some greens might be a 12 some might be a 10, depending on were there at, if they sit in the shade or in the sun.

What makes you think that using aimpoint will make you less able to adjust from one green to another?

[saevel25]

Its just when i see images of the charts, they are all based on stimp readings, i've been on courses were greens have increased in stimp during the round. The sun comes out, melts the dew. Or you play one round in the morning or one round in the evening. I play on a course were the stimp switches daily, depending on how much rain and when they mow. I've had one putt one day of the week, were on another day its 2 feet faster.

[dsc123]

Originally Posted by saevel25

Its just when i see images of the charts, they are all based on stimp readings, i've been on courses were greens have increased in stimp during the round. The sun comes out, melts the dew. Or you play one round in the morning or one round in the evening. I play on a course were the stimp switches daily, depending on how much rain and when they mow. I've had one putt one day of the week, were on another day its 2 feet faster.

I don't dispute that this happens.  My question is why would you be able to adjust to this without aimpoint, but not with aimpoint?

Would you just....turn the page?

[saevel25]

The question is, how would you determine the proper stimp? That's the only variable i don't know. I can say turn the page, but what if its not that page, what if its the next, or the one after. To me, to keep guessing would really throw me off my game and be very irritating.

Of course this is just my own questions to the process of aimpoint with out taking a class, so there could easily be a method to the madness, so to speak. But these are just concerns i see from an outsider looking in on the process with the information i am given, and questions i would need to be answered if/when i take an aimpoint class. This is in no way discounting aimpoint, just voicing some weakness i see in the method.

[Golfingdad]

The question is, how would you determine the proper stimp? That's the only variable i don't know. I can say turn the page, but what if its not that page, what if its the next, or the one after. To me, to keep guessing would really throw me off my game and be very irritating.  Of course this is just my own questions to the process of aimpoint with out taking a class, so there could easily be a method to the madness, so to speak. But these are just concerns i see from an outsider looking in on the process with the information i am given, and questions i would need to be answered if/when i take an aimpoint class. This is in no way discounting aimpoint, just voicing some weakness i see in the method.

Like Erik said, it's very simple. It's basically a one variable algebra problem with the stimp being the unknown. You guess the stimp, pick the putt (usually 10 foot perpendicular to the slope) and if you make it, then voila, you have the stimp. If you miss, adjust the page either direction based on how you missed. As far as adjustments throughout the day or from hole to hole, aimpoint is definitely not going to overcome those issues but it will give you a better starting point than just guessing.

[logman]

Originally Posted by boogielicious

Alignment takes practice for sure including in putting.  Also, optical illusions on the greens can alter your read.   I've noticed this a lot this year when my feet tell me one read but my eyes another.   I have learned to trust my feet.

Feet are great, but usually the slope is clear, the question is how much to borrow. Good putters have imagination, they tend to have a 3 dimensional thought process. Aimpoint seems to rely on a consistent stimp(from green to green) and more worrying a consistent break. Most greens I putt on are more organic than that.

That's just my opinion on it.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by logman

Aimpoint seems to rely on a consistent stimp (from green to green) and more worrying a consistent break. Most greens I putt on are more organic than that.

Greens vary little in their stimp, and though AimPoint charts are exact, the way I teach AimPoint is that the charts are simply a guide that's very fluid. After all, a slop going from 2% to 2.2% could change a read from 24 to 26 inches, but the charts and your feet will still give you a better read than saying "somewhere out here" eight inches out and relying on your body to shove the putt another 16 or 18 inches.

That happens. And nobody's gotten worse at putting after doing AimPoint. Not even close. If you can use AimPoint to find straight or the direction and amount of slope you're a better putter.

[scottothegreat]

well I think you should just take a quick look and get up and putt the ball nothing ever good happens when someone stands over the ball for five minutes.