2013 BMW Championship Discussion Thread

[iacas]

What's most disturbing though is that he slowed down immediately after the ball moved.  He had to be looking right at the ball.  He had to know it moved.  And to not call the penalty on himself seems like of shitty.  Definitely not the same way a lot of other professionals would have handled it.

He said he thought it oscillated. Which would be reason enough to stop moving the stick.

[MEfree]

Oscillate means to move back and forth. That is not what happened.

If the ball rotates, it clearly moves to a different spot. He started moving the stick, saw the ball move (rotate), then he stopped moving the stick. When he stopped moving the stick the ball did not return or rotate in the opposite direction back to its original position,

I agree with you (and think Tiger knew it moved) but it is a pretty close call.  In this case, I think the ball rolled a mm closer to him, but what would be the call if the ball rotated on its own axis and did not change positions on the golf course?

I also agree with Erik about where you draw the line with what movement is enough to constitute a penalty (and about the point of why Tiger MAY have stopped moving the stick).  I suppose you could have a rule that exempts inadvertent movement of less than a ball, but then you might have an argument about whether someone's ball moved more or less than a ball and this is harder to see with the eye than movement or no movement.

Would it be considered an oscillation if Tiger had immediately pushed back the stick to the original position in the same movement he was trying to remove the stick and the ball (and logo) had returned to their original position?

Also, if returning the stick to the original position did not return the ball to the original position, how would Tiger have gone about replacing the ball to the exact position to get a 1 shot penalty instead of a 2 shotter?  If 1 mm of movement is enough to constitute a penalty, is being off by 1 mm on replacing the ball enough to constitute failing to replace the ball even if you make an effort to do so?

So who thinks JF will win the tourny?

[newtogolf]

Thanks for posting the video, on the news the logo appeared to move more than it does here.  What is more confusing to me is why he'd even try to move the stick without a rules official watching.  It looks pretty clear from the video that the ball was resting on the stick, and any attempt to move it would cause the ball to move.

[JCRuzanski]

Kuchar shoots 61 today...

[jamo]

Tiger's made a few birdies after an early bogey, while Furyk and Sneds have dropped a few shots. Just 4 back now.

[colin007]

You guys are gonna catch some serious hell when Colin gets here. :-O

Here I come to the rescue! I'll not have Tiger's name bandied about willy nilly...

[nick1998bunker]

Been the same story all year. If it werent for that quad on 1 he would be winning by two. If it werent for hitting the flagstick he would have won the masters. He's so close though

[JCRuzanski]

splash

[bplewis24]

I guess I've learned something today.  The line between oscillate and move isn't as easily recognized as I thought it was, especially when a ball isn't on solid ground, and it can "clearly move" without coming to rest in a different spot.

Saying the ball clearly moves doesn't mean a whole lot in this context, as a ball clearly moves even when it oscillates.  I can clearly see that if he would have removed the stick, the ball would have moved.  I can clearly see that when comparing frames, the logo is at rest in a different spot by a millimeter or whatever it is, which clearly illustrates that the ball rotated (aka "moved).  What I cannot confidently say is that I would have called a penalty on myself without clearly knowing that my ball came to rest in a different spot than it was before.  I wouldn't have the luxury of freeze frames out on the course.  I probably would have assumed the ball oscillated myself.

Don't get me wrong, last year in a tournament I started to move a stick from next to my ball, the ball moved (actually came to rest in a spot about a millimeter away from the original spot (on solid ground, hard pan), and I called a penalty on myself even when my playing partner said it was "okay, don't worry about it."  But if my ball wasn't on solid ground and touching the stick resulted in the logo rotating by a half millimeter but the ball not moving locations, I may have considered that an oscillation.

I got to see the Golf Network video during their coverage today on my TV, and it was much clearer that the ball didn't just rotate, but also came to rest at a different spot (moved forward and left).  Looking at the video earlier on a smaller screen, I couldn't pick up on that.

[nick1998bunker]

What's is up with these bounces

[Wansteadimp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by theworldengine

Lol at that leading to a penalty. There should be a thread, "have you ever seen a pro break the rules, and get away with it?". I once saw on tv Fred couples ground his club in a sand trap before the shot lol.

Plus this

You guys are gonna catch some serious hell when Colin gets here.

leads me to conclude that -

Monty is coming by to talk about Indonesia.  Interesting.

[burrito007]

are you guys all forgetting that tiger used to have fans run and grab his ball in the rough and throw it in the fairway?

[iacas]

are you guys all forgetting that tiger used to have fans run and grab his ball in the rough and throw it in the fairway?

Ummmmm, pretty sure nobody is "forgetting" that one…

[nick1998bunker]

Ummmmm, pretty sure nobody is "forgetting" that one…

He did?

[colin007]

He did?

No.

[nick1998bunker]

Also talking about tigers perspective on the ruling. From our angle of the video (horizontal) you can see the marks as reference to see that it moved down. From tigers view of above you can't really use the marks as reference and it moved down which is kinda hard to pick up from above.

[Golfingdad]

Kind of surprised that Zach Johnson made such a big deal about the heckler on the 18th green today.  For anybody who didn't see or hear it, as he was walking to mark his ball after missing his birdie putt a fan yelled out "Zach, you suck!"  Very uncool, no question, but I just surprised he didn't just ignore it.

OTOH, not surprised at Sergio's reaction in 18 fairway at fan who yelled at him DURING his swing on his layup.  That guy (the fan, not Sergio) deserves a kick to the groin.

[nick1998bunker]

Kind of surprised that Zach Johnson made such a big deal about the heckler on the 18th green today.  For anybody who didn't see or hear it, as he was walking to mark his ball after missing his birdie putt a fan yelled out "Zach, you suck!"  Very uncool, no question, but I just surprised he didn't just ignore it. OTOH, not surprised at Sergio's reaction in 18 fairway at fan who yelled at him DURING his swing on his layup.  That guy (the fan, not Sergio) deserves a kick to the groin.

Sergio does seem to get alot of it