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cape cod beachfront golfer

Confusion: Upright vs Standard lie

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Sometimes my mind just doesn't understand a concept...

To me an upright lie would mean shaft more upright... thus toe of club down?

BUT online I often see this explanation:

An upright lie occurs when you sole the club and the toe of your iron is off the ground and up in air. A flat lie occurs when an iron tilts in the other direction so that the heel is off the turf.

Is my understanding of upright wrong when I think shaft should be more upright and toe FLAT not up?

When I adjust my R9 Supertri from STANDARD to UPRIGHT will toe of driver go up or down ???

Confused ???

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What does the poll have to do with the thread topic?????

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Sometimes my mind just doesn't understand a concept...

To me an upright lie would mean shaft more upright... thus toe of club down?

BUT online I often see this explanation:

An upright lie occurs when you sole the club and the toe of your iron is off the ground and up in air. A flat lie occurs when an iron tilts in the other direction so that the heel is off the turf.

Is my understanding of upright wrong when I think shaft should be more upright and toe FLAT not up?

When I adjust my R9 Supertri from STANDARD to UPRIGHT will toe of driver go up or down ???

Confused ???

If you adjust your driver to "upright" and don't change your address position then the toe will go up.

Think of it this way:  a putter has the most upright lie of any club in your bag (close to 90 degrees) so what would it look like if you addressed a drive with your putter in your hand?  The toe would be way up in the air.

And, conversely, if you tried to putt with your driver (using the same ball position as you would have with your putter) the heel would be way up off the ground because I driver is much too flat for putting.

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what is the relevance, of the two different options, btw? does the upright lie or flat lie change ballflight? Obviously impact conditions are the most important for sure, but I think if you stand too close to the ball (shaft angle between ground and shaft too upright) it could be a difficult swing.

I suppose it all relates to the D-plane mechanic of the golf swing, correct?

So it depends on the ball position and the d- plane

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what is the relevance, of the two different options, btw? does the upright lie or flat lie change ballflight? Obviously impact conditions are the most important for sure, but I think if you stand too close to the ball (shaft angle between ground and shaft too upright) it could be a difficult swing.

I suppose it all relates to the D-plane mechanic of the golf swing, correct?

So it depends on the ball position and the d- plane

Yeah, it will affect the ball flight somewhat.  If you switch to the upright setting, then you're lifting the toe up, and consequently, the normal to your clubface is shifting to the left (for a righty) and promote a draw.

I should add "as I understand it" since I'm not an expert on this stuff. :beer:

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Yeah, it will affect the ball flight somewhat.  If you switch to the upright setting, then you're lifting the toe up, and consequently, the normal to your clubface is shifting to the left (for a righty) and promote a draw.

I should add "as I understand it" since I'm not an expert on this stuff.

Correct, more upright means the toe will be more up in the air, face aimed slightly more left. So if someone's clubs are too flat, they'll tend to start the ball too far right, vice versa if they're too upright. The "standard" iron has become more upright the past decade or so.

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Sometimes my mind just doesn't understand a concept...

To me an upright lie would mean shaft more upright... thus toe of club down?

BUT online I often see this explanation:

An upright lie occurs when you sole the club and the toe of your iron is off the ground and up in air. A flat lie occurs when an iron tilts in the other direction so that the heel is off the turf.

Is my understanding of upright wrong when I think shaft should be more upright and toe FLAT not up?

When I adjust my R9 Supertri from STANDARD to UPRIGHT will toe of driver go up or down ???

Confused ???

This might help give you a visual:

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Thank you.

Labeled pictures were the clincher.  Especially the pictures showing how the FACE changes.

I really had the exact opposite pictured in my confused version.

Mystery solved.

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This is not directed to a comment on this thread but just in case someone new to golf reads it and gets the wrong idea (with the pictures and what not): The static lie angle at address doesn't really mean anything. The toe could be off of the ground at address and the lie angle perfect at impact (and most often is). Most people are going to have the hands higher at impact than at address and also a shaft droop factor from the force of the swing. That makes the dynamic lie angle need to be more upright than the static lie angle would have indicated.
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This is not directed to a comment on this thread but just in case someone new to golf reads it and gets the wrong idea (with the pictures and what not):

The static lie angle at address doesn't really mean anything. The toe could be off of the ground at address and the lie angle perfect at impact (and most often is).

Most people are going to have the hands higher at impact than at address and also a shaft droop factor from the force of the swing. That makes the dynamic lie angle need to be more upright than the static lie angle would have indicated.

You're absolutely right and that's a good point.  A toe-up or toe-down position at address doesn't mean the club will come into impact like that.  If the toe is up at impact too much though, it could cause shots to be pulled or pull-hooked.  The opposite can happen if the heel is up at impact...shots could be pushed and have a high, weak trajectory.  The pics are good though at illustrating what is considered upright vs. flat and how the face angle is affected.

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