Rolling club face away to start backswing

**andyh** · January 24, 2010

Just got a copy of Ben Hogans 5 lessons and was interested to read in the foreword how hogan cured his hooking and started to hit it higher.

he says "i rolled the face of the club open away from the ball. That cupped my left wrist"

he also says he rolled the face open as quick and as fast as he could.

that was his first move away from the ball.

I have tried this many times on the range, with success, but was never quite sure exactly what i was doing and have not really put it into my game consistently.

just wondered what other players thought about this. it seems to set the hands a bit quicker.

is this a good move?

***iacas*** · January 25, 2010

is this a good move?

Hogan didn't even do that. He said he did, but he didn't. His pictures even show a lot of rolling, but he didn't do it nearly as much as he says he did.

That's not even pure toe up. Hogan may have felt like he did that, but he didn't.

**Phil McGleno** · January 25, 2010

This is one of the many things Hogan says he did that he didn't do. None of those things are BIG things, but there are a bunch of them. What he felt wasn't what he did all the time.

**MikeLowry5** · January 25, 2010

If he did or did not do it, would you think its an acceptable move for the hookers out there :)?

**iammpspeer** · January 25, 2010

I just got finished with the stance and posture section, good book so far, have learned a lot. I have done this a lot at the range as well, but it feels weird to go completly toe up sometimes, so I just feel it out..

But after all these recent threads on people not knowing what they are really teaching gets me worried, I need to make sure I find a good instructor and learn all the positives out of this book!

**Shanks A Million** · January 25, 2010

In his book, Leo Deigel says just the opposite. "Never pronate the wrists, this is very bad!" Or something to that effect.

**Zeph** · January 25, 2010

A thread with lots of good information, discussing the matter of rolling the arms/wrists: Clubface Square to the Plane .

**tm22721** · January 26, 2010

The only time clubface angle matters is when the ball is leaving the clubhead. Pronation has a number of advantages and when used in conjunction with a low left release it naturally squares the clubface eliminating the problematic roll of the wrists.

**Zeph** · January 26, 2010

Why roll the club open and rely on the swing to roll it shut again at impact? You don't gain anything by it, you'll just have to time it perfectly every single time.

**Shanks A Million** · January 26, 2010

I don't quite get why so many people refer to Hogan so often. He was a great golfer, but only one. Byron Nelson hit it better, so did Moe Norman; Woods, Hagen, and Nicklaus have won more majors; Player is equal in the number of majors; yet everyone spends their time reading a book written 50 years ago by a guy about what worked for him. Hogan didn't have any of the analysis tools we have now, and he didn't understand the things we understand now.

Just because Hogan said pronation helped him, doesn't mean it's true. Remember the thread about Faldo? It proves you can be good and have no idea what you're talking about. Every one of us feels the golf swing differently, and every one of us swings the club differently. As long as the basic fundamentals are in place, every swing, good or bad, will be different. As long as you deliver the club to the ball square, and on plane, everything else is just innuendo.

**MiniMoe** · January 27, 2010

rolling the club open as the first move in the back swing is a bad idea. For one it puts too much importance on timing to get the club back to square at impact. I was taught to do that when I was first learning. That one swing flaw caused many other flaws in my swing. It was not until I started to swing "one plane" that I realized that rolling the wrists was counter productive.

**Fatphil** · January 27, 2010

I didn't want to respond to this before some of the better players did but my first impression was...Dude...NOOOOO. I 'm just piling on now but seriously if u are a 4 hndcpr..work on yr chipping & putting not this goofy shit.

**MikeLowry5** · January 28, 2010

For me it was an attractive idea because I start with the face closed. At square or open I do not feel comfortable at all and want to re-grip at the top.

**Zeph** · January 28, 2010

The question is, why do you start with a closed face?

**MikeLowry5** · January 28, 2010

The question is, why do you start with a closed face?

When I start weak, neutral or strong I still tend to rotate my wrists just a hair that closes the face a bit. Particularly, I do not feel comfortable with a neutral grip with the longer clubs. This is where its most evident. I have not bombed a tee shot sky high in 6 months, all lower line drives that tend to hook.

**MiniMoe** · January 28, 2010

if you rotate your wrists and the club closes, you are turning your left hand under the shaft as the club goes back? If that is a problem, try this..... hold the club with the left hand only. Now, take the club back to waist high in the back swing without rotating the wrist at all in either direction. At this point in the swing the club should still be in a straight line pointing directly away from the intended target. Now, put your right hand back on the club and take it back down to the address position and repeat the drill with both hands on the club without rotating the wrists at all.

At waist high in the back swing, the wrists have not rotated at all, and the club should be pointing directly away from the intended target, and the toe of the club should be pointing to straight up, called the "toe up" position... or close

**MikeLowry5** · January 28, 2010

if you rotate your wrists and the club closes, you are turning your left hand under the shaft as the club goes back? If that is a problem, try this..... hold the club with the left hand only. Now, take the club back to waist high in the back swing without rotating the wrist at all in either direction. At this point in the swing the club should still be in a straight line pointing directly away from the intended target. Now, put your right hand back on the club and take it back down to the address position and repeat the drill with both hands on the club without rotating the wrists at all.

No toe up position for me when trying this. I can get to toe open by starting with the clubface left of the target (keep in mind that I'm left handed) regardless of the grip (neutral, weak, strong).

If having trouble closing the face down, is starting with it left of the target (right for all you righties) acceptable?

***iacas*** · January 28, 2010

At waist high in the back swing, the wrists have not rotated at all, and the club should be pointing directly away from the intended target, and the toe of the club should be pointing to straight up, called the "toe up" position... or close

Toe up isn't square to the plane. If the club is toe up, you've rotated the club open. But there's a whole other thread on that, so I won't get into it here except to post this:

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Rolling club face away to start backswing

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