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What is the best way to get forward shaft lean through impact?

post #1 of 48
Thread Starter 

I've seen the Tour Striker infomercial, and I don't know if I like the whole idea. On it, they said that you're supposed to hold the wrist angle longer through impact so your hands are in front of the ball. They even had a scratch golfer(or better) on there saying that all he thinks about is keeping the shaft forward through impact. And they had Kevin Streelman on there saying how cool the tour striker is.

 

I always thought the forward shaft lean would happen automatically if you turned through the shot properly. But they're saying to be a good ball striker you need to hold that wrist angle and keep the shaft leaning forward with a conscious effort.

 

Edit:  Do you hold the wrist angle longer / lean the shaft forward on purpose, or do you get the proper shaft lean from using your lower body correctly?


Edited by PaulMVR - 4/3/11 at 5:37pm
post #2 of 48

It happens automatically for me, the faster I swing the more lean it has it seems, not by much though.

 

And honestly... I think that whoever is doing the marketing for golf products needs to be fired.

It's some of the worst infomercial / commercial / marketing I have seen so far.

Plus those tour pros they hired to do the commercials, should not have happened.

 

So I don't buy the products, unless I can demo the product myself and make my own decision if it's cool or not.

post #3 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMVR View Post

I've seen the Tour Striker infomercial, and I don't know if I like the whole idea. On it, they said that you're supposed to hold the wrist angle longer through impact so your hands are in front of the ball. They even had a scratch golfer(or better) on there saying that all he thinks about is keeping the shaft forward through impact. And they had Kevin Streelman on there saying how cool the tour striker is.

 

I always thought the forward shaft lean would happen automatically if you turned through the shot properly. But they're saying to be a good ball striker you need to hold that wrist angle and keep the shaft leaning forward with a conscious effort.

 

What's the real deal?

That's the real deal.  Hit the ball first, then the ground.
 

 

post #4 of 48

The hands must swing faster than the club. Weight more forward also helps. It is impossible to describe, except by using pressure points perhaps. You just have to find the feeling for yourself.

 

For me, it took some time finding the correct feeling. What really made the difference was speeding up the hands on the downswing without flipping.

post #5 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeph View Post

The hands must swing faster than the club. Weight more forward also helps. It is impossible to describe, except by using pressure points perhaps. You just have to find the feeling for yourself.

 

For me, it took some time finding the correct feeling. What really made the difference was speeding up the hands on the downswing without flipping.



No, the hands do not more faster than the club.

post #6 of 48

Yeah it's not the hands that move faster, not even close. When the hands are behind the shaft at impact, its more likely to top the ball or hit the ground first.  That's a cause of leaning back on the downswing or improper hip turn, most likely from trying to kill the ball.  Keeping the shaft forward allows you to hit ball first and ground second, and more pure contact.  Like they said trying to keep that wrist, shaft angle as long as possible before releasing helps keep shaft forward as well as build more power.  A major problem with people trying this is they start to lean back trying to kill it, so you need to really keep your head still as you do this.

post #7 of 48

Not faster in terms of mph perhaps, but fast enough to keep the club trailing behind. The clubhead will obviously move faster since it covers a larger distance.

post #8 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMVR View Post

I've seen the Tour Striker infomercial, and I don't know if I like the whole idea. On it, they said that you're supposed to hold the wrist angle longer through impact so your hands are in front of the ball. They even had a scratch golfer(or better) on there saying that all he thinks about is keeping the shaft forward through impact. And they had Kevin Streelman on there saying how cool the tour striker is.

 

I always thought the forward shaft lean would happen automatically if you turned through the shot properly. But they're saying to be a good ball striker you need to hold that wrist angle and keep the shaft leaning forward with a conscious effort.

 

What's the real deal?



This should help

 

 

 

post #9 of 48
Thread Starter 

Sai-Jin, that's what I always thought also, but I feel like I need to swing out of my shoes to keep the shaft leaned right.

 

Does anyone think my swing looks flippy?  I'm thinking it does a little bit, but the contact and distance on this shot was pretty good. I definitely am not thinking about keeping the shaft forward because I never thought you should have to concentrate on that.

 

Would the tour striker help my game?.... or hurt it?...

 

 

 

 

And thanks John, i'll have to try that

post #10 of 48

For me, it comes from ball placement.  If I have the ball in the middle of my stance theres no way for me to not hit the ball with the shaft leaning foreward.

post #11 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMVR View Post

Sai-Jin, that's what I always thought also, but I feel like I need to swing out of my shoes to keep the shaft leaned right.

 

Does anyone think my swing looks flippy?  I'm thinking it does a little bit, but the contact and distance on this shot was pretty good. I definitely am not thinking about keeping the shaft forward because I never thought you should have to concentrate on that.

 

Would the tour striker help my game?.... or hurt it?...

 

 

 

 

And thanks John, i'll have to try that


 

 

Also with Mike Breed tip that was inserted by john, the wrist action or release that he recommends is way to early.Example Dustin release his wrist  quarter above  waist high.

 

 

 

 

post #12 of 48

As Bobby Clampett says in his book "The Impact Zone", there is no concious effort to unhinge the left wrist during the forward swing. Your hands should be opposite your left leg at impact. A teaching tool I use frequently is the swingyde....it works very well

 

www.swingyde.com


Edited by canadianpro - 4/3/11 at 10:57pm
post #13 of 48

This topic is the first thing my pro touched on when I started up a series of lessons with him recently (am still in the middle of it).  I noted to him my irons were typically high and short, and he took a look at my swing and noted I was casting the club.  First thing he did was have me slowly swing the club from top and guided the shaft through release to have me feel how different the correct swing felt - hands much closer to my thighs at impact, forward shaft lean and much different feeling of position of both wrists.  He had me do the "pump" drill as well.

 

After several weeks and about 1200 range balls (~400 a week), lag now feels to me to be as much a function of correct tempo.  Swinging too forced and fast destroys my ability to "crack the whip" in terms of acceleration through the impact zone.  The sense of "not flipping early" or whatever you call it isn't so much a conscious swing thought as keeping my overall tempo smooth.  The "three balls on tees" drill to get my tempo correct seems to have done at least as much toward promoting better iron contact (divots in front of ball, lower boring flight, more distance) as the earlier stuff he originally showed me.  And the "balls on tees" thing also straightened out my driving, as Tourspoon also suggested in the thread I posted a few weeks ago.

 

Just my 0.0002 on the subject as I'm working on this very thing.

post #14 of 48

In the book "The Physics of Golf," the claim is made (and I'm inclined to believe it, though I haven't thought too hard about that particular point) that pretty much anything you do with your muscles to encourage or hold off unhinging of your wrist is going to cost you club head speed compared to keeping those particular muscles passive and letting the club head take care of itself.  That's not at all to say that there's nothing you can do to control the hinge, but that you can't do it just by holding off release.  You have to do it by setting things up with the rest of the swing so that the natural unhinge occurs in the right place.

post #15 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeg View Post

In the book "The Physics of Golf," the claim is made (and I'm inclined to believe it, though I haven't thought too hard about that particular point) that pretty much anything you do with your muscles to encourage or hold off unhinging of your wrist is going to cost you club head speed compared to keeping those particular muscles passive and letting the club head take care of itself.  That's not at all to say that there's nothing you can do to control the hinge, but that you can't do it just by holding off release.  You have to do it by setting things up with the rest of the swing so that the natural unhinge occurs in the right place.


wow, I think this stuff is gonna drive me nuts

 

post #16 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by zeg View Post

In the book "The Physics of Golf," the claim is made (and I'm inclined to believe it, though I haven't thought too hard about that particular point) that pretty much anything you do with your muscles to encourage or hold off unhinging of your wrist is going to cost you club head speed compared to keeping those particular muscles passive and letting the club head take care of itself.  That's not at all to say that there's nothing you can do to control the hinge, but that you can't do it just by holding off release.  You have to do it by setting things up with the rest of the swing so that the natural unhinge occurs in the right place.


I don't totally believe that claim, but I think it's a good point.  Not that anyone was mentioning Stack and Tilt in this thread, but this is the only part about Stack and Tilt that I am not personally a believer in.  Stack and Tilt says you should hold the wedge all the way through to the finish position, so that from a down the line view the shaft is leaning to the right on the follow through.  I don't think it's possible to do this while swinging with full power.  I've yet to see video of someone making a powerful swing without losing the flying wedge and unhinging the wrist at some point after impact, and I have seen video of Mike Bennett's swing in which he loses the wedge (you can tell because his shaft pops into frame above his left shoulder and leaning to the left from the down the line view) and then he quickly regains the wedge and tilts the shaft to the right.  Video is in this thread: http://thesandtrap.com/forum/thread/40806/mike-bennett-swing

 

I don't think anyone should be taught to try to hold the wedge all the way through to the finish (if holding the wedge is even the correct term- but you know what I mean - maintain wrist angles that are required for a forward shaft lean).  I simply think it's impossible to do if you swing with full power.  I understand the argument that if you tell someone to try to hold the wedge through to the finish, then maybe they will be likely to release their lag later, but I think people should just be taught that the wedge should be held until after impact but that after that into the finish it's not possible to keep it in place.  The goal is to be actively engaging the power accumulators through impact.

 

Stack and Tilt tells the truth about physics in the rest of the swing, but I don't think it tells the truth in claiming that the wedge should (or can) be held all the way to the finish in a powerful golf swing.

 

If someone has a video showing otherwise then I could be convinced.  

 


Edited by laxbballgolf - 4/4/11 at 10:47am
post #17 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by canadianpro View Post

As Bobby Clampett says in his book "The Impact Zone", there is no concious effort to unhinge the left wrist during the forward swing. Your hands should be opposite your left leg at impact. A teaching tool I use frequently is the swingyde....it works very well

 

www.swingyde.com



I'm working through this book right now. Best golf money I ever spent. Rather than trying to direct the clubhead to the ball, which is what most of us hackers do, Clampett says you need to learn to direct your hands to an aim point 4 inches in front of the ball ("The mind is in the hands"). The more I practice Clampett's drills the better my ball striking becomes. After years of struggling with lack of lag in my swing and coming over the top I am finally getting the hang of loading my lag and releasing it very late in my swing. My short and mid iron and wedge game improved by leaps and bounds almost immediately. Now my long irons, woods and driver are beginning to follow suit. I would highly recommend "The Impact Zone" to anyone who feels the need to build more lag into his/her swing.

 

 

 

post #18 of 48

If you keep your left arm fairly straight and your right arm tight to the body (think elbow against belt - just above right pocket for righties) on the way down, I'm not sure how it's possible to swing without lag, forward shaft lean, and ultimately, power. Not sure how a person can make full swing, where their hands don't lead the club head, without hurting their wrists!?!? You have to release that right arm after impact to generate any power. Seriously. Anything else is contrived and/or weak.

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