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How to Effectively Create Lag on the Downswing

post #1 of 70
Thread Starter 

We talk all the time about how having a steady head makes it easier to transfer the weight forward at impact, how having the weight forward makes it easier to have a flat lead wrist at impact (inline impact).  Wanted to put this video together to "simply" get into some of the details that go into how the arms, hips and shoulders work as you transfer your weight forward to hit the ball solid.  Also wanted to address some misconceptions I see with golfers trying to create "lag".   Here's another good thread with discussion on the motion of the arms on the downswing: Elbow Postion and Its Effects on the Downswing

 

post #2 of 70

Excellent post Mike.

 

Here in an example of the "types" of lag, in particular the sequencing and its effect on the sweetspot path and clubface orientation.

 

post #3 of 70

Thanks for the video, Mike. 

 

James gave me the "right elbow to the navel" motto via evolvr a while ago. Been pondering it since - and trying to make it work since then. Problem is, I tend to hit ground behind the ball when trying it (like you show it at the beginning of the video).

 

When I look at Sergio at A6 (foreswing, shaft parallel to the ground), his elbow is at his side. Compare yourself at 6.05 with the practice moves earlier - your right elbow is nowhere near the navel, too.

 

I do understand that the idea "elbow to the navel" should prevent the separation of the elbows.

Wouldn't be concentration on reaching a proper A6 the better goal: right palm facing away from you, shaft parallel to the ground?

Wouldn't going to A4 (top of the swing) and simply letting your arms fall to A6 give you the basic arms motion?

post #4 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollister View Post

 

When I look at Sergio at A6 (foreswing, shaft parallel to the ground), his elbow is at his side. Compare yourself at 6.05 with the practice moves earlier - your right elbow is nowhere near the navel, too.

 

 

Well, no player's elbow actually reaches the navel, it's just a feel or visual.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollister View Post

 

Wouldn't be concentration on reaching a proper A6 the better goal: right palm facing away from you, shaft parallel to the ground?

 

Definitely a feel that could work, just depends if that feel clicks with the player.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollister View Post

 

Wouldn't going to A4 (top of the swing) and simply letting your arms fall to A6 give you the basic arms motion?

 

Yep that's basically what I'm saying.  Some players feel like they straighten their trail arm to a point past the ball.  The idea behind the video is to illustrate what has to happen with the weight, hips and shoulders to accomodate the release of the arms.  Also to point out some potential issues that can happen if golfers try to "manufacture" the lag.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by james_hirshfield View Post

Excellent post Mike.

 

Here in an example of the "types" of lag, in particular the sequencing and its effect on the sweetspot path and clubface orientation.

 

 

Great work James!

post #5 of 70
Good stuff Mike. My instructors always tell me that I've got plenty of lag - and the videos show it - but what I really need is the right 'kind' of lag, i.e. shoulder/arm geometry in the impact zone.
post #6 of 70
Love this video Mike! Great stuff for all of us who are obsessed with A6, and looking for the feel that makes it click. :). Sigh...one day.
post #7 of 70
Yes definitely much more of a feeling.

Think about where your belly button is at setup.... Then as you transfer the weight forward in the downswing, get the elbow to where the belly button was at setup. Which is obviously now more forward than where the elbow was at setup.

The key piece as mike demonstrated is making sure the elbow doesn't start internally rotating too fast (palm down) ...
.... And actually is gradual straightening (lowering the arms) so the upper center doesn't start moving back.

This type of "Sergio" lag is referred to as "accumulator lag" as you can have varying amounts but still have "lag pressure" at the ball. Ala Steve stricker etc
post #8 of 70
Hey James,

Was the video you posted an example of Hunter changing direction effectively in order to create lag? I say this because I worked with you on this before and was just curious. It looks like Hunter goes to the top nice and wide and comes down narrow by trying to feel like the club is behind him. Would that sum it up?
post #9 of 70
a2_wink.gif
post #10 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by cipher View Post

Love this video Mike! Great stuff for all of us who are obsessed with A6, and looking for the feel that makes it click. :). Sigh...one day.

Personally I'm obsessed with A7 ;) but 6 is nice too :)

post #11 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

Personally I'm obsessed with A7 ;) but 6 is nice too :

 

 

James does these things to us! a2_wink.gif

 

Edit: Can't argue with you there BTW, but I only want A6 for the sake of A7.  

post #12 of 70
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jd924 View Post

Hey James,

Was the video you posted an example of Hunter changing direction effectively in order to create lag? I say this because I worked with you on this before and was just curious. It looks like Hunter goes to the top nice and wide and comes down narrow by trying to feel like the club is behind him. Would that sum it up?

 

I think James is being careful here not share too much from someone else's lesson because it's a move or a sensation that works for that player and is compatible to their grip, rates, etc.  

 

The video gives you some good visuals and I like what James said here, "The key piece as mike demonstrated is making sure the elbow doesn't start internally rotating too fast (palm down) ..... And actually is gradual straightening (lowering the arms) so the upper center doesn't start moving back."

post #13 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvmac View Post

I think James is being careful here not share too much from someone else's lesson because it's a move or a sensation that works for that player and is compatible to their grip, rates, etc.  


The video gives you some good visuals and I like what James said here, "The key piece as mike demonstrated is making sure the elbow doesn't start internally rotating too fast (palm down) .
.... And actually is gradual straightening (lowering the arms) so the upper center doesn't start moving back."

Completely understandable.
post #14 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Golfingdad View Post

Personally I'm obsessed with A7 ;) but 6 is nice too :)

I like A5.5 but that's because I'm obsessed with shaft plane at the moment.
post #15 of 70
This year I tried a swing thought -- the feeling that the butt of the club points at the ball early in the downswing. Just thinking that I need to do that causes me to lag the club ... feels a lot faster, but also too wristy, as though the wrist whip controls the bottom part of the swing. Far as ball striking, no problem, though ball flight seems rather high, as though I am scooping the ball--or maybe that's the TA5 irons I've been trying out.
post #16 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by james_hirshfield View Post

Excellent post Mike.

 

Here in an example of the "types" of lag, in particular the sequencing and its effect on the sweetspot path and clubface orientation.

 

 

Is left "bad" and right "good", or are they both equally effective but with different shape results?

post #17 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

 

Is left "bad" and right "good", or are they both equally effective but with different shape results?

Yes left is pretty bad, and right is very good.

post #18 of 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

 

Is left "bad" and right "good", or are they both equally effective but with different shape results?

Left looks like a flip to me, but I don't know e1_poo.gif from good chocolate! a2_wink.gif

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