Club Fitting - Demo Day

[Zippo]

I currently play with TaylorMade M1 irons in standard loft, length and lie with senior flexed graphite shafts. To me, the shafts feel a bit "whippy". As you can see to the left, I am a high handicapper still learning to swing properly. Our local golf store had a demo day for Callaway and Titliest today and I had signed up for both of them to see and try their offerings in "game improvement" irons. I have an appointment for a demo with Mizuno on Monday and TaylorMade next Wednesday. While I was waiting for my turn with the Callaway fellow one of the store salespeople gave me a "custom fitting". He indicated that I should be using clubs that are up 2 degrees and should play a 1/2 inch longer shaft in a regular flex.

When my turn came with Callaway he had me try a 7 iron "Big Bertha" in black - didn't like the looks or feel much at all and it didn't give me anything that I don't already have. We then tried the "Rogue X" in a 7 iron and, while it was better, it also didn't show any improvement over my current irons that I could see.

While waiting for my turn with Titliest I tried a TaylorMade 7 iron in their M6 but, again, didn't notice enough of a change to make me want to buy them. I did also try an M4 7 iron and actually liked it better than the M6. Go figure.

I got in with the Titliest fellow and I hit the 718 AP1 with a graphite shaft and regular flex. My ball flight was straighter and I gained around 10 - 15 yards in distance over my current M1 irons. I liked the look at address and the feel of the club in the swing. The sound seemed pretty decent to me, too, and was softer sounding than my irons. I was pretty much taken with these clubs. The rep also told me that I should not be using a _+ 1/2 inch shaft and should only have +1 degree of loft.

I'm thinking before I make a final decision I should try the Mizuno 919 Hot Metal and the Taylormade M5. I guess, after all this, my questions to you is:

1 - The difference between what the "custom fitting" showed I should play and what the Titliest fellow said I should play. Is the difference really that big and which one is "right"?

2 - I still have problems swinging my 5 iron fast enough to get the benefit of distance over my slightly shorter 6 iron. The both seem to go about 170 yards on my very best hit. Is a 1/2 inch longer club going to be harder to swing faster or, again, is the difference to slight to matter?

3 - At almost 68 years old can I really buy distance or should I spend the extra cash on beer? 

[Vinsk]

I’m no expert on these matters but it sounds like you got some rather incomplete fittings done? Static mixed with a little dynamic? Was it with a monitor? 

Do you know if the Mizuno fitting is going to use the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer tool? 

Don’t buy clubs if you don’t like how they look or feel regardless if the give better numbers. If the numbers are amazingly better then you’ll have a difficult decision.

I recommend you take the Titleist 718 AP1 vs the Mizuno Hot Metal and get some solid data. Whether your shaft is +1/2” is probably a minimal issue. I believe you’ll be fine with either club as they are both quality clubs. It may be possible that if you decide on one over the other they could do a complete fitting for you at no charge if you buy the clubs. Best of luck and cheers!

[billchao]

12 hours ago, Zippo said:

The difference between what the "custom fitting" showed I should play and what the Titliest fellow said I should play. Is the difference really that big and which one is "right"?

Fitting isn't an exact science. Unless your swing is pretty good it's probably hard to tell if a dispersion tendency is a result of the swing and strike location or 1° of lie angle. Plus, there's no standard for lie and length, so each set of irons is different. 

12 hours ago, Zippo said:

I still have problems swinging my 5 iron fast enough to get the benefit of distance over my slightly shorter 6 iron. The both seem to go about 170 yards on my very best hit. Is a 1/2 inch longer club going to be harder to swing faster or, again, is the difference to slight to matter?

I want to say one word to you. Just one word...

Hybrids.

12 hours ago, Zippo said:

At almost 68 years old can I really buy distance or should I spend the extra cash on beer?  

That depends on how much beer you can buy with the money you have left.

[David in FL]

12 hours ago, Zippo said:

 

3 - At almost 68 years old can I really buy distance or should I spend the extra cash on beer? 

At 60, I spend 90% of my money on beer, golf, and women.  The rest I just waste...

[pganapathy]

Ideally do a dynamic fitting where you are hitting with ball tracking tech that is giving you all the appropriate numbers like, spin, loft etc. A shaft shouldn't be selected only based on swing speed.  Some slow swingers need a stiffer shaft because of the way they swing.  Things like kick point also matter.

Pick clubs based on how well you hit them.  Distance shouldn't be the most important criteria.  Very few clubs are going to be remarkably longer than others today (at least from the head).  Most important is dispersion for me.  If you can have a low dispersion, you are much better off.  The ball will always go where you aim it

[IowaGreg]

27 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

Pick clubs based on how well you hit them.  Distance shouldn't be the most important criteria.  Very few clubs are going to be remarkably longer than others today (at least from the head).  Most important is dispersion for me.  If you can have a low dispersion, you are much better off.  The ball will always go where you aim it 

Not that i'm even close to a good golfer, But, I would agree with this.  I had a scramble with a college player on my team.  He could drive 300+ yds every drive, but it was always in the wrong fareway or in the trees.  The shots that were in the right fareway were the ones that got used, even though they were 50+ yds shorter.  Much better to have the better aim that a few more yds of distance.

Just my opinion.......  It depends on which brand of beer...........

[Zippo]

21 hours ago, Vinsk said:

I’m no expert on these matters but it sounds like you got some rather incomplete fittings done? Static mixed with a little dynamic? Was it with a monitor? 

The length measurement was static. The lie was done with the tape on the bottom of the club and the board and I did hit in front of a Trackman monitor.

 

21 hours ago, Vinsk said:

Do you know if the Mizuno fitting is going to use the Mizuno Shaft Optimizer tool? 

I don't know but I guess I'll find out on Monday. Thanks for the recommendation on the Titleist and Mizuno. There's a lot of testing to do yet.

 

9 hours ago, billchao said:

Fitting isn't an exact science. Unless your swing is pretty good it's probably hard to tell if a dispersion tendency is a result of the swing and strike location or 1° of lie angle. Plus, there's no standard for lie and length, so each set of irons is different. 

I want to say one word to you. Just one word...

Hybrids.

That depends on how much beer you can buy with the money you have left.

I have an M2 22 degree hybrid but have a difficult time hitting it. The head shape and appearance is so different from what I was used to back in the day that I just plain find it hard to hit correctly. When I do, it goes pretty well but it's so much smaller than I'm used to with driver and fairway woods that it's just gonna take me a while to accept it. Speaking of that, while I was waiting around I looked at some of the new driver heads and those things are gigantic! Much larger than the metal driver and metal woods I used to hit.

[Vinsk]

7 hours ago, IowaGreg said:

they were 50+ yds shorter.  Much better to have the better aim that a few more yds of distance.

That’s not ‘a few’ more yards. Unless there’s water or OB I’m sure as hell taking the wild drive over fairway if I’m 50yds closer to the hole. I mean that could be a PW vs a 4i! 😁

[Zippo]

8 hours ago, pganapathy said:

Ideally do a dynamic fitting where you are hitting with ball tracking tech that is giving you all the appropriate numbers like, spin, loft etc. A shaft shouldn't be selected only based on swing speed.  Some slow swingers need a stiffer shaft because of the way they swing.  Things like kick point also matter.

Pick clubs based on how well you hit them.  Distance shouldn't be the most important criteria.  Very few clubs are going to be remarkably longer than others today (at least from the head).  Most important is dispersion for me.  If you can have a low dispersion, you are much better off.  The ball will always go where you aim it

Neither of the reps got into spin, loft and so on. We did look at dispersion and the AP1s were definitely better for me.

[pganapathy]

15 minutes ago, Zippo said:

Neither of the reps got into spin, loft and so on. We did look at dispersion and the AP1s were definitely better for me.

Maybe you lucked on the correct shaft.  But if you are serious about buying the correct set, then don't rely on this for final confirmation of your specs.  It might cost you more but it is worth it, as you will be sure you have the correct club/shaft for your game

[Zippo]

Just now, pganapathy said:

Maybe you lucked on the correct shaft.  But if you are serious about buying the correct set, then don't rely on this for final confirmation of your specs.  It might cost you more but it is worth it, as you will be sure you have the correct club/shaft for your game

Thanks. Good advice. I've got Mizuno on Monday and TaylorMade on Wednesday. After that I'll mull it over and go back in and try several of the clubs again before making a decision.

[Club Rat]

Most of the older guys I golf with, carry a bag full of Fairway Woods with only the 7- iron through wedges.
And they play lesser distant courses.

On most days, they may only hit 5 different clubs during the round.
One of the guys only has 7 clubs in his bag and walks all the time.

They unusually only hit any club a max distant - 150 yards.
Every once in a while they will show up with a "New Miracle Club"  
I'll ask them how far they hit it?

I think they are only tying to intimidate their buddies with new clubs ….

 

[dennyjones]

31 minutes ago, Club Rat said:

Most of the older guys I golf with, carry a bag full of Fairway Woods with only the 7- iron through wedges.
And they play lesser distant courses.

On most days, they may only hit 5 different clubs during the round.
One of the guys only has 7 clubs in his bag and walks all the time.

They unusually only hit any club a max distant - 150 yards.
Every once in a while they will show up with a "New Miracle Club"  
I'll ask them how far they hit it?

I think they are only tying to intimidate their buddies with new clubs ….

 

I play with one guy in our regular foursome that is always experimenting with new clubs.   Newer driver, newer putter he just likes to buy and sell.   He doesn't hit the ball far but I believe he actually gets enjoyment from buying and selling clubs as much as golfing.

[LMoore]

I'll buy wedges when they no longer have sharp grooves. 1-2 years. I'll buy new irons when the 8-PW start rusting [wear spots] and just start bothering me to look at [2-3 years]. I still have the same 3/19 hybrid that is 5 years old. Can't find one that feels or performs any better. This one looks rough, but I don't care. 3 woods I will keep until our relationship sours.

Since the Driver is limited in COR, there is little advantage to changing if what you have works. I can't find anything that works better for me than the Ping G400 with Yellow Hazardous shaft. The change from 2012-2017, using the most popular driver from each year, is a 7 yard gain. That is 7 yards in 6 years. Check out Rick Shiels youtube video on a very objective test.

Zippo, IMHO, get fitted by an objective fitter that isn't trying to sell you a specifc brand [theirs].

[billchao]

8 minutes ago, LMoore said:

Since the Driver is limited in COR, there is little advantage to changing if what you have works. I can't find anything that works better for me than the Ping G400 with Yellow Hazardous shaft. The change from 2012-2017, using the most popular driver from each year, is a 7 yard gain. That is 7 yards in 6 years.

You're a good golfer, so it makes sense that you haven't experienced much gain due to the technology (although 7 yards is nothing to sneeze at IMO). Most of the technology goes into making drivers more forgiving so they perform better on mis-hits.

[LMoore]

10 hours ago, billchao said:

You're a good golfer, so it makes sense that you haven't experienced much gain due to the technology (although 7 yards is nothing to sneeze at IMO). Most of the technology goes into making drivers more forgiving so they perform better on mis-hits.

Trust me, forgiveness is my friend. No question, the drivers are more forgiving now. But the test I’m referring to with Rick Shiels is with his very good, 112mph swing. For those that swing under 100mph, the gain in distance would be even less.

At least once or twice a round, I imagine if we were still using small persimmon drivers, I might miss the ball. Thank goodness for technology.

[billchao]

1 hour ago, LMoore said:

But the test I’m referring to with Rick Shiels is with his very good, 112mph swing.

But that's my point. Good players gain less from modern driver technology. I've hit some really gnarly shots that had no business going as far as they did, or shots that I know are mis-hit where people say, "Good shot." A lot of that is due to club design.

[LMoore]

1 minute ago, billchao said:

But that's my point. Good players gain less from modern driver technology. I've hit some really gnarly shots that had no business going as far as they did, or shots that I know are mis-hit where people say, "Good shot." A lot of that is due to club design.

Bill, If I didn’t do a good job stating it, I’m agreeing with you.