Shot Zone - Tee Shots

[klineka]

I have a tournament in a couple weeks and the last tournament I took multiple penalty strokes, so my main goal for this one is no lost balls/penalties.

Before I play a practice round there, I went online to see what the course looks like on Google Maps. It looks pretty narrow and I have some questions about the par 5 holes. 

I have a couple examples below and want to make sure I am understanding the shot zone/decision mapping portion of LSW (Just reread those sections last night)

Red lines - Edge of 20 yd penalty buffer

Yellow lines - Approximate 4 iron distance with appropriate shot zone width

Blue Lines - Approximate 3 wood distance with appropriate shot zone width

Teal Lines - Approximate driver distance with appropriate shot zone width

 

Example #1 Par 5, 525 yds. 

Based on my understanding of shot zones, I think the correct play here would be 3 wood aimed a few yards into the left rough. That gives me room to miss both left and right, and doesn't really bring any trees on the left into play.

 

Example #2 Par 5, 543 yds.

Even though this is a par 5, I think 4 iron might be the play here. My driver shot zone brings both left and right penalties into play, and my 3 wood brings the fairway bunker into play. I'm not sure if the extra 20-30 yds with the 3 wood is worth bringing the fairway bunker into play. Part of that depends on how deep the bunker is I'm sure, but based on my understanding of shot zones and shading, I think 4 iron would be the play even though it's a par 5, or is it 3 wood aimed at the right middle of the fairway and just accept that there's a chance I could find the fairway bunker?

 

 

Example #3 Par 5, 543 yds

I dont quite know the condition of the right rough on this hole, but based on what I can see, I am thinking it might be 4 iron again, or possibly 3 wood if the rough on the right isn't too bad. I think my driver shot zone brings penalty zones in on both sides, and depending on the right rough, 3 wood could be out too.

 

Am I thinking about these shot zones/decision mapping correctly? It would definitely feel unusual hitting a 4 iron off the tee on multiple par 5s, but it's certainly better than being in the woods or O.B.

[woodzie264]

I definitely agree with your picks on paper. With #2, if your typical “miss” is left with the 3W, then I think 4i is the play. But if your usual 3W miss is a fade or push to the right, I’d hit the 3W. Personally I’d hit Driver there since it’s my most dependable club. 

I agree with your picks on #1,3

definitely some narrow-looking fairways for those Par 5’s

Edited May 20, 2019 by woodzie264

[billchao]

Are you factoring in shades of grey? I'd hit driver on all of those holes. How many strokes would you lose off the tee with your 4i compared to your driver?

Except for maybe the first example, it doesn't look like what you marked out in red are OB. It looks like there are plenty of chances to advance the ball should you find yourself in some of those small groups of trees and it's not like your 3w avoids them completely. Plus, you're not guaranteed to hit the edge of your shot zone with your drive.

When you get out there for your practice round you'll get a better look at the course, the condition of the rough, etc. See if you can get away with a wayward tee shot in person rather than just on Google Earth. Maybe even drop a ball here and there where you think would be trouble off the tee and see what you can do with it.

[phillyk]

Example #1 would depend on whether you can go for it in 2 shots or have to lay up short of that hazard crossing the fairway.  The other two examples look like driver to me.  Doesn't look to have too many trees and typical rough these days isn't very thick. #1 might be 4 iron if you are planning on laying up, because of ending up in widest part of fairway with open look at making a decent layup, and that hole does look like it has more trouble off fairway.

[klineka]

12 minutes ago, billchao said:

How many strokes would you lose off the tee with your 4i compared to your driver?

I'm not quite sure. Is there a way to quantify that for an average golfer? 

Probably would lose less over time with a 4 iron than I would if I hit driver O.B., right? (I guess depends on how many times driver would go O.B.)

12 minutes ago, billchao said:

Except for maybe the first example, it doesn't look like what you marked out in red are OB. It looks like there are plenty of chances to advance the ball should you find yourself in some of those small groups of trees and it's not like your 3w avoids them completely.

The areas I lined in red were the 20 yd "penalty buffer" talked about in LSW, I did those on examples 2 and 3 as well because they looked like areas where a ball could easily be lost, so I treated them as O.B./penalty areas.
I could see hitting driver on the first example I guess, since those trees don't look too bad, but example 2 looks like I could have a lost ball on either side.

15 minutes ago, billchao said:

 

Plus, you're not guaranteed to hit the edge of your shot zone with your drive.

 

My driving range performances lately beg to differ 

I guess my understanding of the penalty buffers from LSW were that the first 20 yards inside the penalty area is also considered black (in the shades of grey) and then you fit your shot zones to avoid as much of the black as possible.

7 minutes ago, phillyk said:

Example #1 would depend on whether you can go for it in 2 shots or have to lay up short of that hazard crossing the fairway.  #1 might be 4 iron if you are planning on laying up, because of ending up in widest part of fairway with open look at making a decent layup, and that hole does look like it has more trouble off fairway.

About the only way I'd consider going for it on example 1 is if I got ahold of a drive and it went like 285+ (which does happen from time to time), leaving me with <215 in, so I would be hitting an iron instead of 3 wood. If the drive goes my normal 265 or so (roughly the distance I showed in example 1), I'm laying that up short of the creek almost every time since it's like 240 to the green from my average drive spot.

11 minutes ago, phillyk said:

The other two examples look like driver to me.  Doesn't look to have too many trees and typical rough these days isn't very thick.

I think the part I am struggling with for hitting driver is that on both examples 2 and 3, driver extends into the penalty buffer quite a bit (quite a lot depending on what that area is like to the right of the fairway in example 3), and I thought the first objective was to minimize the amount of your shot zone that falls within penalty buffers. 

[iacas]

Penalty buffers aren’t the same black Kevin. They’re just a darker grey.

And sometimes you just have to nut up and hit a good shot.

[klineka]

24 minutes ago, iacas said:

Penalty buffers aren’t the same black Kevin. They’re just a darker grey.

Ah yeah I see that now (chapter 21, page 165 if anyone else was curious).

I can definitely see how driver is probably the play on example 2. It's 85 yds between penalty areas there, so 45 between penalty zone buffers.

I'll look more when I play the practice round, but when I zoom in more, that right rough on example 3 doesnt look as bad as I first thought, so driver aimed at the right edge where the fairway pinches in might be the best play there too.

[HJJ003]

@klineka what's the name of the course? 

 

[klineka]

11 minutes ago, HJJ003 said:

@klineka what's the name of the course? 

Blacklick Woods Golf Course

Here is the scorecard, for this tournament we are playing from the white tees (the tournament series alternates yardages every tournament, so some tournaments are in the 6600-6800 range, and others like this one are in the 6300-6500 range)

The holes in my examples are 4,6, and 11 (in that order)

A number of the par 4's also call for less than driver, but those seem to be more straightforward in terms of decision making

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by klineka

[HJJ003]

21 minutes ago, klineka said:

Blacklick Woods Golf Course

Here is the scorecard, for this tournament we are playing from the white tees (the tournament series alternates yardages every tournament, so some tournaments are in the 6600-6800 range, and others like this one are in the 6300-6500 range)

The holes in my examples are 4,6, and 11 (in that order)

A number of the par 4's also call for less than driver, but those seem to be more straightforward in terms of decision making

 

Thanks. Looks like a fairly difficult driving course. However, my vote goes with much of the rest. The only hole I would even consider hitting anything less than driver (I know based on my shot zones but still) is the longest Par 5 but man the distance gradient is so important and I don't think you are gaining a lot by giving up that distance. Leave the 4 Iron in the bag and let her rip and accept the outcome. Lowly advice from a high handicapper 🙂 

[DeadMan]

One thing you should consider that you may not have is how close you're going to get to the green in 2 if you hit driver. It's worth a little more risk to hit the driver if it gives you a good shot at hitting the green in 2, or getting close to the green in 2.

So, on the first hole, you're probably not going to be able to go for it most of the time even with hitting a driver. In that case, I don't think there's much difference between hitting 4 iron - 5 iron - wedge vs. driver - 7 iron - wedge. Or however it works out. Just make sure you're not laying too far back on your tee shot so that you have to hit a 3 wood or something to get to a close lay up distance.

On the second hole, it looks like there's trouble around the green, possibly. Hard to say for certain. But if that trouble is going to mean you'll lay up short of the green every time, the extra risk with the driver may not be worth it.

On the third hole, that looks like a driver to me, unless the rough on the right side would lead to a lost ball fairly often. The area around the green doesn't look to have much trouble, so that's one you should be going after.

Edited May 21, 2019 by DeadMan

[klineka]

Just played the course, and here is how I played each hole.

Example 1 - http://www.gamegolf.com/player/klineka/round/2611031?hole_id=45076197

For some reason the white tees were moved up and were next to the red/yellow tees, so the hole was only playing 460 yds. It was quite a bit downwind and I hit my best 3 iron of the day, ended up going 235 yds. I barely cleared the hazard with my 2nd shot because I underestimated how wide it is, but if the tees are back where I think they normally are, I will definitely be laying up both off the tee and with my second.

Example 2 - http://www.gamegolf.com/player/klineka/round/2611031?hole_id=45076199

Was playing straight into a 15 mph wind, and the tee shot is uphill so I hit driver. Hit it decent, 240 yds to left middle of the fairway.

Slight mishit of my 5 iron for my second shot, but was able to stick my gap wedge close and lipped out the birdie putt.

I will likely hit driver here again, especially if it's into the wind again. The rough on the right isn't too bad.

Example 3 - http://www.gamegolf.com/player/klineka/round/2611031?hole_id=45076186

Went with driver here, hit it solid and I thought I hit it dead straight, but the hole angles back to the left a bit so I was right on the edge of the rough/fescue. The rough on the left isn't nearly as bad as the knee high fescue on the right, so I think I will probably hit driver here again too, but will aim further left than I did this time.

Edited May 29, 2019 by klineka
removed white spaces