Breaking Bad

[nevets88]

She choked on her own vomit. She was dead when he woke up, no?

No, WW was standing there, right in front of her as she choked. I assume a guy like WW should know enough to turn her around. BC around 0:30 ways "Walt watches her die..." I wanted to post the actual scene but couldn't find it on YT.

[iacas]

No, WW was standing there, right in front of her as she choked. I assume a guy like WW should know enough to turn her around. BC around 0:30 ways "Walt watches her die..." I wanted to post the actual scene but couldn't find it on YT.

We'd been talking (two posts only, but still) about Jesse. You didn't make clear that you were changing the topic to Walt.

Plus, Jane was bad. She was a druggie, and if she'd lived, Jesse would have died too. Plus, she killed herself. Failure to save is not the same as killing, ordering a kill, orchestrating a kill, etc.

[Golfingdad]

I believe this is true: Walt never killed a "good guy" (directly - obviously his actions got Hank and Gomez killed, and he DID call them off). And those who think Jesse was only "bad" for killing Todd (which is easily justified) often seem to forget that he killed Gale.

Yeah, and the ONLY reason he didn't kill a defenseless Crazy 8 was because he "won" a coin flip. And he was about to murder two drug dealers (attempt to at least) before Walt ran them over.

[nevets88]

We'd been talking (two posts only, but still) about Jesse. You didn't make clear that you were changing the topic to Walt.

Plus, Jane was bad. She was a druggie, and if she'd lived, Jesse would have died too. Plus, she killed herself. Failure to save is not the same as killing, ordering a kill, orchestrating a kill, etc.

Yeah that's true. Although there's a sliver of a chance they could have turned it around. You never know. But yeah, Jane was a bad influence. The writers really kept a fine line with WW and they did a good job of it.

I wonder - if there is proof of you watching Jane choke, what is that, something less than manslaughter? Or could you get away with something like that with a good lawyer?

[Jeremie Boop]

Anna Gunn is hot. (Watching Talking Bad right now)

I think I've seen one picture that she looked attractive to me. There is something about the shape of her face that doesn't look good to me, maybe chin too large and jaw too wide? Looks slightly manish maybe.

[iacas]

Yeah, and the ONLY reason he didn't kill a defenseless Crazy 8 was because he "won" a coin flip. And he was about to murder two drug dealers (attempt to at least) before Walt ran them over.

True. I remembered Walt running them over; I'd forgotten why Jesse was there.

[Golfingdad]

And those who think Jesse was only "bad" for killing Todd (which is easily justified) often seem to forget that he killed Gale.

If you were to take Jesse out of the context of this show - with the significantly worse people only making him appear decent, relative to them - then all you have is a:

drug-using, drug-dealing, drug-making, murdering, stealing, high school flunking, loser.

Not exactly the kind of guy you want your daughter bringing home.

[jgreen85]

I did like the way they tied things together. Was very logical and not "reachy".

The final episode was fine. Not good or bad imo. I feel like the writer gave in to our "need" for "happy-endings." I would've loved to see the writer go true Shakespearean tragedy and leave Walt thoroughly unhappy. Hamlet, Othello, R&J;, etc lost everything, Walt at least got what he initially wanted: money for his family after he died. Sure, he would've preferred to have Hank still around and maybe Walt Jr. wouldn't have hated him (would've had to figure out where the money came from right? I suppose blackjack might've worked).

To me, this was the equivalent of R&J; getting to stay together, but not being able to see their families and be poor or something. Not an ideal result, but not bad considering he could've easily walked away w/ $5m and his rep intact had it not been for his fatal flaw: ego.

[JetFan1983]

Lots of cool links everyone's posted up here! Really appreciate it, guys.

OK, I have one that's pretty interesting. It was written in 2011 just before the season four premier. It's written by a former meth cook, now in the witness protection program and he's writing on the realism in Breaking Bad.

It's interesting that he says the only thing missing from the series is the hard fact that meth destroys families and lives. And also, being that this guy was a former member of the Aryan Brotherhood, I can only imagine that he thought the final season was absolutely amazing.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/16/the-real-breaking-bad-confessions-of-a-former-meth-king.html

Not to glorify a guy like this or anything... but I thought it was an interesting read.

[Slice of Life]

Lots of cool links everyone's posted up here! Really appreciate it, guys.

OK, I have one that's pretty interesting. It was written in 2011 just before the season four premier. It's written by a former meth cook, now in the witness protection program and he's writing on the realism in Breaking Bad.

It's interesting that he says the only thing missing from the series is the hard fact that meth destroys families and lives. And also, being that this guy was a former member of the Aryan Brotherhood, I can only imagine that he thought the final season was absolutely amazing.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/07/16/the-real-breaking-bad-confessions-of-a-former-meth-king.html

Not to glorify a guy like this or anything... but I thought it was an interesting read.

Well, let's see...Marie no longer has a husband, the White family is in shambles, Jesse's parents won't speak to him, Jane's dad accidentally killed hundreds of people and then himself, Brock doesn't have a Mom anymore, Andrea (RIP) lost her brother when the dealers killed him, Lydia's daughter is an orphan now...

And that's a short list off the top of my head. Lot of families and lives destroyed there. Let's not forget Wendy, too. Her life was magnificent...or the couple with the ATM machine. lol

[Golfingdad]

I just thought of something that confused me ...

Why would Walt think it necessary to poison Lydia?

We know that she basically put a hit out on his family, but I don't think he knew that until after he poisoned her.

[dsc123]

I just thought of something that confused me ...

Why would Walt think it necessary to poison Lydia?

We know that she basically put a hit out on his family, but I don't think he knew that until after he poisoned her.

I dont think he liked the idea of her selling his blue stuff.

[jamo]

I dont think he liked the idea of her selling his blue stuff.

Didn't Slyler also mention to Walt in their last conversation that masked men entered the house and told her not to tell the police about Lydia?

[Golfingdad]

I dont think he liked the idea of her selling his blue stuff.

When he "retired" he gave the keys to the business, so to speak, to Todd so it was kind of his decision to allow her to keep selling his "baby blue."  Worked out better for him that Todd couldn't keep up the purity without him, but even if he had, it doesn't seem like the basis for him needing to kill Lydia.

Didn't Slyler also mention to Walt in their last conversation that masked men entered the house and told her not to tell the police about Lydia?

That conversation happened after the poisoning, didn't it?  It certainly happened after he went and got the poison ... because it happened after she hung up the phone with Marie, who told her that Carol had seen him at their old house.

I don't know, it really doesn't matter, but it seems like it's only obvious that he would have wanted to kill her from the viewers point of view ... but not so much from Walt's point of view.

[JetFan1983]

I just thought of something that confused me ...

Why would Walt think it necessary to poison Lydia?

We know that she basically put a hit out on his family, but I don't think he knew that until after he poisoned her.

Because she was complicant in the theft of his blue meth formula along with Todd and planned to distribute it -- or rather, was distributing it -- as far away as Europe. Walt was content to let Lydia and the Aryans take over the operation, but was comfortable knowing that their purity couldn't even crack 70%. When he found out blue was back on the street, he put two and two together that the Aryans must be either using Jesse or partnering with Jesse. That's when, the next morning, he purchases the machine gun and retrieves the ricin, only to crash Lydia and Todd's meeting in the very next scene.

Stealing's Walt's signature formula is a big no-no in Walt's book, and in his mind, she had to die.

Besides, Walt had already intended to kill her in season 5A twice: once when he thought she bugged a barrel of methylamine, and again (with the ricin no less) when he was planning the "early retirement" of all of Mike's guys in prison. Walt however changes his mind when she brings up the opportunity of exporting the blue meth to the Czech Republic (Episode 5A8 "Gliding Over All).

And of course, for the omniscient audience, the death made even more sense: 1) Todd's guys threaten Skylar and the family in "Granite State," going as far to never mention her knowledge of Lydia (when they met at the car wash earlier in 5B "Blood Money"). 2) Lydia's connections with the Neo-Nazis 3) Her betrayal of "Decklan" to help the Neo-Nazi's take over the Southwest meth trade 4) Her hiring of a hitman to kill Mike in 5A and lastly 5  ) how she uses sex appeal to control Todd in a creepy way.

So to us, it makes perfect sense, but it still makes sense only to Walt's single perspective as well.

I believe a lot of what fueled Walt's decision to kill Lydia were the emotions of anger and jealousy over Lydia having never been caught, but that's just my opinion of course. Remember that she had been part of Gus's original operation as well, and thus had survived possibly for longer than anyone in that business.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsc123

I dont think he liked the idea of her selling his blue stuff.

Didn't Slyler also mention to Walt in their last conversation that masked men entered the house and told her not to tell the police about Lydia?

Yea, but this scene takes place after he had already poisoned Lydia.

But Walt could not live with himself knowing his formula had been stolen. If you ever want to find yourself dead or in Walt's dog house on this show, it is messing with or stealing his precious " baby blue ."

PS- This is why I'm sadder than you and Erik that this show is over. Or how you and Erik aren't sad it's over. Because I notice shit like this. And you don't!!!! WAHHHHHH! WAHHHHHHH! I'm a TV psycho. WAHHHHHHH!

I think I still have something in my eye......

Actually wait.... I could actually just be sad because Dexter sucked.

Likely both.

[Golfingdad]

Because she was complicant in the theft of his blue meth formula along with Todd and planned to distribute it -- or rather, was distributing it -- as far away as Europe. Walt was content to let Lydia and the Aryans take over the operation, but was comfortable knowing that their purity couldn't even crack 70%. When he found out blue was back on the street, he put two and two together that the Aryans must be either using Jesse or partnering with Jesse. That's when, the next morning, he purchases the machine gun and retrieves the ricin, only to crash Lydia and Todd's meeting in the very next scene.

Stealing's Walt's signature formula is a big no-no in Walt's book, and in his mind, she had to die.

Besides, Walt had already intended to kill her in season 5A twice: once when he thought she bugged a barrel of methylamine, and again (with the ricin no less) when he was planning the "early retirement" of all of Mike's guys in prison. Walt however changes his mind when she brings up the opportunity of exporting the blue meth to the Czech Republic (Episode 5A8 "Gliding Over All).

And of course, for the omniscient audience, the death made even more sense: 1) Todd's guys threaten Skylar and the family in "Granite State," going as far to never mention her knowledge of Lydia (when they met at the car wash earlier in 5B "Blood Money"). 2) Lydia's connections with the Neo-Nazis 3) Her betrayal of "Decklan" to help the Neo-Nazi's take over the Southwest meth trade 4) Her hiring of a hitman to kill Mike in 5A and lastly 5  ) how she uses sex appeal to control Todd in a creepy way.

So to us, it makes perfect sense, but it still makes sense only to Walt's single perspective as well.

I believe a lot of what fueled Walt's decision to kill Lydia were the emotions of anger and jealousy over Lydia having never been caught, but that's just my opinion of course.

Did they ever make a point to show that Walt intentionally gave Todd a substandard recipe when he quit?  Not until the scene in the finale with Badger and Skinny Pete did I get the impression that it would have bothered him that the pure stuff was still being made.  And, for that matter, I got the impression that it wasn't so much that it was being made that bothered him, but rather, that he knew the only possible way it could have been made was by Jesse.  He learned from Lydia's visit to the car wash several episodes back that Todd wasn't pulling his weight.  I don't remember then getting the impression that he purposefully made sure of that, just that he wanted nothing to do with the business anymore.

The first time he wanted to kill her, it was actually Mike's idea that he just went along with, and it turned out they were wrong about her then.  And the second time, it was along with a bunch of guys that he wanted/needed dead so they wouldn't rat on him.  He's not exactly in a position to care about potential rats anymore, seeing as how he is the most wanted man in America and about to die anyway.

It just seems like he doesn't really have much reason for wanting her dead.

[dsc123]

When he "retired" he gave the keys to the business, so to speak, to Todd so it was kind of his decision to allow her to keep selling his "baby blue."  Worked out better for him that Todd couldn't keep up the purity without him, but even if he had, it doesn't seem like the basis for him needing to kill Lydia. That conversation happened after the poisoning, didn't it?  It certainly happened after he went and got the poison ... because it happened after she hung up the phone with Marie, who told her that Carol had seen him at their old house. I don't know, it really doesn't matter, but it seems like it's only obvious that he would have wanted to kill her from the viewers point of view ... but not so much from Walt's point of view.

I see why you would think that, but Walt clearly didn't expect Todd to be able to make it blue. Remember the scene with badger and the other guy, Walt asked them if what he heard on charlie rose was true, and that's how he knew Jessie was alive, right? And Todd couldn't make it. So maybe they kept that step secret?

[JetFan1983]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

Because she was complicant in the theft of his blue meth formula along with Todd and planned to distribute it -- or rather, was distributing it -- as far away as Europe. Walt was content to let Lydia and the Aryans take over the operation, but was comfortable knowing that their purity couldn't even crack 70%. When he found out blue was back on the street, he put two and two together that the Aryans must be either using Jesse or partnering with Jesse. That's when, the next morning, he purchases the machine gun and retrieves the ricin, only to crash Lydia and Todd's meeting in the very next scene.

Stealing's Walt's signature formula is a big no-no in Walt's book, and in his mind, she had to die.

Besides, Walt had already intended to kill her in season 5A twice: once when he thought she bugged a barrel of methylamine, and again (with the ricin no less) when he was planning the "early retirement" of all of Mike's guys in prison. Walt however changes his mind when she brings up the opportunity of exporting the blue meth to the Czech Republic (Episode 5A8 "Gliding Over All).

And of course, for the omniscient audience, the death made even more sense: 1) Todd's guys threaten Skylar and the family in "Granite State," going as far to never mention her knowledge of Lydia (when they met at the car wash earlier in 5B "Blood Money"). 2) Lydia's connections with the Neo-Nazis 3) Her betrayal of "Decklan" to help the Neo-Nazi's take over the Southwest meth trade 4) Her hiring of a hitman to kill Mike in 5A and lastly 5  ) how she uses sex appeal to control Todd in a creepy way.

So to us, it makes perfect sense, but it still makes sense only to Walt's single perspective as well.

I believe a lot of what fueled Walt's decision to kill Lydia were the emotions of anger and jealousy over Lydia having never been caught, but that's just my opinion of course.

Did they ever make a point to show that Walt intentionally gave Todd a substandard recipe when he quit?  Not until the scene in the finale with Badger and Skinny Pete did I get the impression that it would have bothered him that the pure stuff was still being made.  And, for that matter, I got the impression that it wasn't so much that it was being made that bothered him, but rather, that he knew the only possible way it could have been made was by Jesse.  He learned from Lydia's visit to the car wash several episodes back that Todd wasn't pulling his weight.  I don't remember then getting the impression that he purposefully made sure of that, just that he wanted nothing to do with the business anymore.

The first time he wanted to kill her, it was actually Mike's idea that he just went along with, and it turned out they were wrong about her then.  And the second time, it was along with a bunch of guys that he wanted/needed dead so they wouldn't rat on him.  He's not exactly in a position to care about potential rats anymore, seeing as how he is the most wanted man in America and about to die anyway.

It just seems like he doesn't really have much reason for wanting her dead.

All good points. But I think you're underestimating how pissed Walt gets when you mess with his baby blue. Walt never intentionally gave Todd a bad formula. He just knew that Todd would never be able to recreate the blue without much, much more practice with Walt present, a la Jesse. Jesse could not achieve blue level production levels on his own until at some point in season 3, and that was after many, many, many cooks under Walt's guidance. And remember how much Walt freaked out when he found out Jesse was capable of making it on his own? Or how he got Gale fired after he realized he would soon be able to learn how to cook it blue on his own?

The decision to kill Lydia was most likely made the night before this meeting, after Walt realized that the Aryans must be using Jesse to cook for them. He then assumes that they have connections to Lydia who is then distributing for them.

Walt's entire run in the finale relied heavily on luck, kismet, good fortune, whatever. The keys falling from "the sky" after Walt prays to God to let him return to ABQ sort of suggest that in the episode's cold open.

He assumes Lydia will be at the coffee shop at 10am on Tuesday. He then assumes, that if she is there, and is distributing the blue for the Aryans, this is his one chance to off her with the ricin. So he puts the tampered stivia packet there just in case. When she actually does show up and meets with Todd, his suspicions have proven correct. Had Todd not shown, Walt very easily could have walked up to that table, and taken the stivia packet before she had a chance to use it.

Again, pure luck played into Walt's favor in this scene, just as it did in the final scene, just as it had in him eluding the authorities throughout the episode despite walking around in plane sight, or just as it had in magically finding the car keys in the beginning.

That's my take, anyway.