Driver TrackMan Numbers

[_chs_]

I was at a demo day and hit some drivers. One of the reps helped me with various shafts and heads.  I really liked the Callaway Epic Flash.

here are the numbers and I want to get some opinions if this is the combination I should go with or continue to refine numbers. The club felt good but I have never been on a TrackMan before so I don’t know if he is just being a good salesman or if he is making the best recommendation.  With a regular shaft the spin rate was a lot higher.  Can you help me decipher these numbers?  Thanks in advance.

 

about me:

Age 52 . Index is 9.7

club speed 102.3

attack angle 1.7

club path -0.1

launch angle 10.7

face to path -3.1

ball speed 151.5

spin rate 3667

spin axis 3.1

carry 261

total 279

[iacas]

You can plug some numbers into this and see if you can optimize to get better launch conditions/distance.

Trajectory optimizer - Launch Monitor, Golf Ball Tracking | Golf Simulators | FlightScope.com

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Find your optimal ball flight trajectory and add distance to your golf shots. Use FlightScope's Trajectory Optimizer to plot ball flight in real-time.

 

[dennyjones]

I'm no expert, novice in fact.   When I was fitted last year the spin rate for my Callaway Rogue was about 2800 average.   This was an improvement from around 3600.   

[_chs_]

Is 3667 spin rate way too high?

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, _chs_ said:

Is 3667 spin rate way too high?

Probably. Try the link I gave you earlier.

You might find you'll gain like 2 yards or something.

[_chs_]

16 minutes ago, iacas said:

Probably. Try the link I gave you earlier.

You might find you'll gain like 2 yards or something.

Thank you.  I will give it a try later it is glitchy on my iPad. 

[Adam C]

At that launch angle and speed, I don't think that spin number is going to hurt you. If your launch was higher maybe but at 10.7 you usually need more spin.

 

[Cfmgolfer]

Launch looks a little low and spin looks a little high.  Did you notice where you were hitting it on the face?  Very quick analysis is that you were probably catching them low on the face, which would contribute to both #'s being in this range.  If you are not sure, and and can hit the club again, have him put some impact tape on the face and see.  If the flight path of this driver is close to what you are seeing with your current driver, then you can try it on the range with a little foot powder spray.  In general, strikes low on the face equate to a lower launch and higher spin due to the club's geometry.  If the ball can't stay in the air due to launch, it will spin more to try and keep it in the air.  Overall #'s look good, just need to look into why the launch and spin are just slightly out of the optimal range.  

[klineka]

5 minutes ago, Cfmgolfer said:

Launch looks a little low and spin looks a little high.  Did you notice where you were hitting it on the face?  Very quick analysis is that you were probably catching them low on the face, which would contribute to both #'s being in this range.  If you are not sure, and and can hit the club again, have him put some impact tape on the face and see.  If the flight path of this driver is close to what you are seeing with your current driver, then you can try it on the range with a little foot powder spray.  In general, strikes low on the face equate to a lower launch and higher spin due to the club's geometry.  If the ball can't stay in the air due to launch, it will spin more to try and keep it in the air.  Overall #'s look good, just need to look into why the launch and spin are just slightly out of the optimal range.  

I agree with most of this, but if you are happy with the shot shape/ball flight and were making centered contact (seems like it since that's a 1.48 smash factor) and getting those numbers, I would probably leave it as is, you are only talking about a couple yards of optimization.

[ncates00]

On 7/6/2019 at 10:05 PM, _chs_ said:

I was at a demo day and hit some drivers. One of the reps helped me with various shafts and heads.  I really liked the Callaway Epic Flash.

here are the numbers and I want to get some opinions if this is the combination I should go with or continue to refine numbers. The club felt good but I have never been on a TrackMan before so I don’t know if he is just being a good salesman or if he is making the best recommendation.  With a regular shaft the spin rate was a lot higher.  Can you help me decipher these numbers?  Thanks in advance.

 

about me:

Age 52 . Index is 9.7

club speed 102.3

attack angle 1.7

club path -0.1

launch angle 10.7

face to path -3.1

ball speed 151.5

spin rate 3667

spin axis 3.1

carry 261

total 279

In my opinion, your spin is way too high.  However, spin and launch angle must work in tandem at a given speed.  Nonetheless, I still say it is too high.  My ball speed is similar to yours, and I like to launch the ball much higher (13-15*) and spin it under 2400; but, I like to hit more up on driver than you do. 

This will give much better carry with driver.  You want a descent angle with driver to be about 40* so you get good carry and rollout.  irons, you'll want close to 50* for stopping power.  3w is usually in between, but you can go either on the driver side for max distance or closer to the irons to get it to stop.

9 minutes ago, klineka said:

you are only talking about a couple yards of optimization.

No, he has a lot more than a couple of yards on the table.  Mid-3k spin is way too much for driver, especially with his ball speed and still hitting up on it.  He should drop 1k in spin and get a higher launch; granted, this is assuming he can make the change.  Regardless, it is more than a mere couple of yards.

Edited July 15, 2019 by ncates00

[klineka]

21 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

No, he has a lot more than a couple of yards on the table.  Mid-3k spin is way too much for driver, especially with his ball speed and still hitting up on it.  He should drop 1k in spin and get a higher launch; granted, this is assuming he can make the change.  Regardless, it is more than a mere couple of yards.

Does that mean that the Trackman chart I posted is wrong then?

He is only hitting up 1 degree but has a lower ball speed than the middle row in the gray box, but is already carrying it 10 yds further than that.

[ncates00]

8 minutes ago, klineka said:

Does that mean that the Trackman chart I posted is wrong then?

He is only hitting up 1 degree but has a lower ball speed than the middle row in the gray box, but is already carrying it 10 yds further than that.

First, the chart you posted is normalized data; we don't know whether his numbers are normalized or actual data (could be wind and other conditions).  Second, his ball speed will increase if he reduces his spin loft, as that is what is actually meant by "compression."  Hence, he will get more distance from the increased ball speed and hitting more up with less spin.  A healthy launch with low 2k spin or even 1700-1900 spin will give great results in carry and total distance.  I prefer low 2k, as the 1700-1900 spin range is bomb city, it is quite unstable and can drop out of the air if you're not careful.  I've done this test many times on my gc2 and have seen great results working it out myself.

Note: I said all this is assuming he wants to and can make the change.  🙂

Edited July 15, 2019 by ncates00

[klineka]

5 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

First, the chart you posted is normalized data; we don't know whether his numbers are normalized or actual data (could be wind and other conditions).  Second, his ball speed will increase if he reduces his spin loft, as that is what is actually meant by "compression."  Hence, he will get more distance from the increased ball speed and hitting more up with less spin.  A healthy launch with low 2k spin or even 1700-1900 spin will give great results in carry and total distance.  I prefer low 2k, as the 1700-1900 spin range is bomb city, it is quite unstable and can drop out of the air if you're not careful.  I've done this test many times on my gc2 and have seen great results working it out myself.

Note: I said all this is assuming he wants to and can make the change.  🙂

Maybe I wasn't clear in my original post on this topic, when I said I thought he only had a couple more yards to optimize, I was talking about with his current ball speed, and that he could possibly squeeze those few extra yards by lowering the spin closer to 3,000.

Obviously if the ball speed (or attack angle) change for whatever reason (spin loft, clubhead speed increase, etc) then the spin would have to be lowered and the launch angle could increase, but I was thinking about it that based on his current ball speed numbers, I thought he was pretty close to getting as much carry as he could based on that ball speed.

 

[ncates00]

1 minute ago, klineka said:

Maybe I wasn't clear in my original post on this topic, when I said I thought he only had a couple more yards to optimize, I was talking about with his current ball speed, and that he could possibly squeeze those few extra yards by lowering the spin closer to 3,000.

Obviously if the ball speed (or attack angle) change for whatever reason (spin loft, clubhead speed increase, etc) then the spin would have to be lowered and the launch angle could increase, but I was thinking about it that based on his current ball speed numbers, I thought he was pretty close to getting as much carry as he could based on that ball speed.

 

Gotcha.  Yes, you're right if he wants to stay where he is and not change anything about delivery, then he is likely capped because if he lowers his spin, then it is possible he may lose yards due to his already low launch; he needs spin to keep the ball airborne.  You're right.

I suppose my post was more along the lines of making a change and improving delivery as opposed to staying "as-is."

[_chs_]

Thank you all for the input.  i think I am going to pay the money for a driver specific fitting and incorporate the advice in this thread to my list of questions.  I appreciate it.  

[Howard Jones]

On 7/16/2019 at 11:23 AM, _chs_ said:

Thank you all for the input.  i think I am going to pay the money for a driver specific fitting and incorporate the advice in this thread to my list of questions.  I appreciate it.  

Make sure you can see where you make impact on the face. The numbers above is form a impact LOW on the face, where launch is low and spin is high.
In your case there is room for improvement if you can dial in a better impact position, so make sure impact is on the upper 1/3 of the face.
If your preference for ball flight is a draw, the upper 1/3 and 3/8 to 4/8" against the toe side is what makes the longest carry.

The same club, shaft player and swing, might see spin levels from 4000 to below 2000 ALL depending on where we make impact (height)
Launch angle might vary by up to 4* from low on the face to the upper 1/3, so just by dialing in a better impact, you can both gain a few miles ball speed, get launch angle 2 or maybe 3 higher, and cut spin levels below 2400.

AS average we see a difference of 240 rpms of spin for each 1/8" we go up or down on the face, so to get below 3000, we need to move impact 3/8" higher than its now, but i suspect it to be way down, so your potential for improvement is very good.
For ball speed, 154 is within reach, and if we say launch goes up by 2* and we  raise impact by 6/8 we should see 1400-1500 as drop in spin, and if we enter those numbers on Flightscope optimizer (who give shorter return numbers than Trackman), it will look like this.

All numbers from Flighstscope so we get the DIFFERENCE right.
151.5 Ball speed - 10.7 Launch - 3667 spin = 234 carry - 251 Total
154 Ball speed - 12.7 Launch - 2250 spin = 251 carry - 278 total
About 16 yards more carry...total is depending on fairways, and lower spin is always more roll.

Its still more than "1 club shorter inn" to get from the same club and swing.

Both Trackman and Flightscope has CHANGED their algorithms lately, Trackman return numbers has become longer than they was, Flightscope has gone the other way and return shorter numbers, but dont ask me why, its just a observation where i notice that Flightscope has shrink-ed their numbers average about 5%, i dont have a number for Trackman, but i seems like 3-4% longer, so they are now close to the generous distances we might see from CG2,
 

I made this chart using Flighscope optimizer a few years ago, and they are more inline whit what Trackman returns now. They was made to illustrate what we could gain simply by dialing in a better impact, so start numbers for spin and launch comes from Trackmans Optimum charts, but ive used 1.5 as smash instead of 1.48 as they use on their charts as the max for 100 mph club speed.

Edited July 17, 2019 by Howard Jones