Ball Landed in Rock Bed

[Wadef]

So me and my partner had to play his ball that landed In a rock bed that was about 10 ft in diameter with the cart path surrounding it. We played the ball no closer to the hole just off the cart path but the people we scrambled against argued that since we had to move the ball more than a clubs length that we had to take a stroke penalty instead of getting free relief. Who is right??

[billchao]

4 minutes ago, Wadef said:

So me and my partner had to play his ball that landed In a rock bed that was about 10 ft in diameter with the cart path surrounding it. We played the ball no closer to the hole just off the cart path but the people we scrambled against argued that since we had to move the ball more than a clubs length that we had to take a stroke penalty instead of getting free relief. Who is right??

You got free relief from a rock bed? Is that a local rule for the course?

Anyway as I understand it, it's a two-step process. You take your drop from the rock bed and then if the cart path is interfering, you proceed to take relief from that.

[iacas]

What is a rock bed? Why was a cart path around it?

Your opponents didn’t make any sense. Free or penalized relief is not determined like that.

[billchao]

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

What is a rock bed? Why was a cart path around it?

I thought it might have been a landscaped area and the course allows a free drop if the ball lands in it.

[Buckeyebowman]

Local rules can be weird. I like billchao's response. They don't want their flowerbeds or landscaped areas torn up by golfers. The course can provide penalty free drops, with local rules, anywhere they wish to.

Doesn't mean the local golfers pay that much attention to them. I've seen guys gouging shots out of mulch beds and plantings when local rules gave relief. 

[iacas]

5 minutes ago, Buckeyebowman said:

Doesn't mean the local golfers pay that much attention to them. I've seen guys gouging shots out of mulch beds and plantings when local rules gave relief. 

Most relief isn't mandatory.

[DrMJG]

16 hours ago, iacas said:

What is a rock bed? Why was a cart path around it?

Your opponents didn’t make any sense. Free or penalized relief is not determined like that.

Rock bed sound the same as what we call Arizona or desert landscaping.  Rocks in place of lawn or the like. large pebbles or larger stone 

 

[Rulesman]

The club should probably integrated the path and rock area by local rule.

However, free relief from an immovable obstruction consists of finding the nearest point of complete relief (not nearer the hole) (however far that happens to be) and then taking 1 cl from that point

[jlbos83]

A course I play regularly has added a large area of sizable rocks along the base of a hill next to a boundary fence, parallel to a hole.  The area isn't irrigated, so here in the desert it was lightly vegetated scrub.  I believe the rock was added to stop erosion from washing the "soil" under the fence, and onto the adjoining property.  This would happen during a heavy monsoon storm, the water would just run off the hill.  I would not call it a water course, it isn't contained, it's just runoff.  The area shouldn't be in play, but, well, let's just say it can be hit!  I assume it's an immovable obstruction, it's manmade, isn't a water course, and isn't movable.  It's probably 30 feet wide, so the drop is back a bit to not be closer to the hole.  The biggest problem is finding the ball in the light colored rocks (or down in them, in which case it's not likely) without breaking your ankle.  Since it's next to OB, you are best off to play a provisional to be covered when you can't find it.  You can't have any certainty about where the ball is since the are isn't visible from the tee, and is against the OB fence.

[Delbra woodard]

today I was playing with a lady that hit her ball by a large movable rock that was by a lake. I said if she can move the rock and play her ball it is not a penalty. She said she could not move the rock because it’s a part of the course. Whose right.

[DaveP043]

On 5/6/2021 at 11:39 PM, Delbra woodard said:

today I was playing with a lady that hit her ball by a large movable rock that was by a lake. I said if she can move the rock and play her ball it is not a penalty. She said she could not move the rock because it’s a part of the course. Whose right.

You can move loose impediments, even in a penalty area, and a "natural" object like a rock is a loose impediment.  However, if your action causes your ball to move, you are penalized one stroke, and must replace the ball.

[TourSpoon]

1 hour ago, DaveP043 said:

You can move loose impediments, even in a penalty area, and a "natural" object like a rock is a loose impediment.  However, if your action causes your ball to move, you are penalized one stroke, and must replace the ball.

 Sometimes, you need a gallery to help, but its still a loose impediment. 

[DaveP043]

2 minutes ago, TourSpoon said:

Sometimes, you need a gallery to help, but its still a loose impediment. 

Exactly.  I re-read @Delbra woodard's post, and her companion might have not realized the change in rules.  As described, there's a large moveable rock near a lake.  It might have been in the Penalty Area.  Prior to 2019, you couldn't move a loose impediment in a hazard, now you ARE allowed to move it.

[pganapathy]

On 8/17/2019 at 10:41 PM, Wadef said:

So me and my partner had to play his ball that landed In a rock bed that was about 10 ft in diameter with the cart path surrounding it. We played the ball no closer to the hole just off the cart path but the people we scrambled against argued that since we had to move the ball more than a clubs length that we had to take a stroke penalty instead of getting free relief. Who is right??

Whether you were entitled to relief from the rocks is a different question.  What happens once you do get relief is that you are entitled to complete relief from whatever you are taking the drop from, for both stance and swing.  In your case, if the nearest point of relief was the cart path, you would then be entitled to relief from the cart path as well, and would have been for you not hitting from it or standing on it.  At that point it would either be one or two club lengths (i forget which) from that point.

[iacas]

7 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

You can move loose impediments, even in a penalty area, and a "natural" object like a rock is a loose impediment.  However, if your action causes your ball to move, you are penalized one stroke, and must replace the ball.

The rock can’t be embedded though.

Hence “loose”. 🙂

[DaveP043]

14 minutes ago, iacas said:

The rock can’t be embedded though.

Hence “loose”. 🙂

Quite right.  I interpreted the words "large movable rock" as meaning the rock wasn't embedded, although its not entirely clear from that wording.