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Embedded Ball Holed?


iacas
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What do you think?

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HoleInOneControversy.jpg

This mind-bending photo had everybody asking: Is a ball embedded in the side of the cup a hole in one? We tracked down the answer.

(I think there's likely some of the ball above the lip, thus, the ball is not holed.)

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When will people learn to take photos from the proper angles to determine if the ball is completely below the putting surface?

I can’t tell from the picture, so absent additional evidence I can’t say that it’s holed.

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1 minute ago, dennyjones said:

It looks as if it is resting against the flag stick.    If they pulled the stick and it fell into the hole, ace, no? 

Not if the ball is embedded in the side of the hole. Then the rule for embedded ball applies.

Plus, the whole pulling the stick and the ball drops thing is the old rule. Now if the ball is resting against the stick and not embedded, it is considered holed as long as any part of the ball is below the putting surface.

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Here is my question with this. If you consider it not holed, how do you continue the hole? If you mark this ball, pull it out to clean it, and then replace it, it will definitely fall in the hole. Horizontally, more than half of the ball is "over" or "in" the cup. I say its a hole in one.

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1 hour ago, dennyjones said:

It looks as if it is resting against the flag stick.    If they pulled the stick and it fell into the hole, ace, no? 

Old rule.

29 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

Here is my question with this. If you consider it not holed, how do you continue the hole? If you mark this ball, pull it out to clean it, and then replace it, it will definitely fall in the hole. Horizontally, more than half of the ball is "over" or "in" the cup. I say its a hole in one.

You repair and replace it on the lip, and have to tap it in.

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6 minutes ago, iacas said:

You repair and replace it on the lip, and have to tap it in.

Interesting. I thought that you had to replace the ball where it was. I guess if you are too close, you have to move it? Pity for that guy.

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Just now, Bonvivant said:

Interesting. I thought that you had to replace the ball where it was. I guess if you are too close, you have to move it? Pity for that guy.

You do replace it. And, as it's deemed "not holed," you can't replace it so that it falls in. That would not be replacing it.

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🤦‍♂️...This again? Last time this turned into someone getting banned I think.

Just now, iacas said:

You do replace it. And, as it's deemed "not holed," you can't replace it so that it falls in. That would not be replacing it.

BTW... Where have you been on my SS thread? I figured you would know from your students if it were possible...:offtopic:...🤷‍♂️

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3 minutes ago, iacas said:

You do replace it. And, as it's deemed "not holed," you can't replace it so that it falls in. That would not be replacing it.

You do not "replace" it, if it isn't in the same spot.

 

3 minutes ago, TRUCKER said:

🤦‍♂️...This again? Last time this turned into someone getting banned I think.

🔨

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36 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

You do not "replace" it, if it isn't in the same spot.

You’ll have to take that up with the USGA.

Quote

But if the ball is embedded on the putting green, the player may mark the spot of the ball and lift and clean the ball, repair the damage caused by the ball’s impact, and replace the ball on its original spot (see Rule 13.1c(2)).

The ball is replaced on its original spot after repairing the damage, as if the damage didn’t exist to begin with.

You mark the ball, pull it out, fix the damage to the green, replace the ball, then tap in to hole out.

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Just now, billchao said:

You’ll have to take that up with the USGA.

The ball is replaced on its original spot after repairing the damage, as if the damage didn’t exist to begin with.

You mark the ball, pull it out, fix the damage to the green, replace the ball, then tap in to hole out.

That rules quote says "in its original spot". If we are talking about a 2 direction axis, that puts the ball over the hole in this case. You would have to move the ball from its original spot to keep it out of the hole.

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From Definitions: Holed - When a ball is at rest in the hole after a stroke and the entire ball is below the surface of the putting green.

When the Rules refer to “holing out ” or “hole out,” it means when the player’s ball is holed.

For the special case of a ball resting against the flagstick in the hole, see Rule 13.2c (ball is treated as holed if any part of the ball is below the surface of the putting green).

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8 minutes ago, Bonvivant said:

That rules quote says "in its original spot". If we are talking about a 2 direction axis, that puts the ball over the hole in this case. You would have to move the ball from its original spot to keep it out of the hole.

You can’t put a ball in the hole if it’s not holed. I don’t know why you’re trying to argue the semantics of it. Whether a ball is holed or not when it is embedded in the side of the hole is clearly defined.

Quote

Holed/1 – All of the Ball Must Be Below the Surface to Be Holed When Embedded in Side of Hole

When a ball is embedded in the side of the hole, and all of the ball is not below the surface of the putting green, the ball is not holed. This is the case even if the ball touches the flagstick.

 

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3 minutes ago, Dutch Boy said:

IMO If the ball is embedded rule 16.3b applies and relief may be taken  by dropping a ball in the relief area right behind where the ball was embedded.

 

R16.3b is for a ball embedded in the general area.

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