Jump to content
IGNORED

Daily Rules Question II


Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Asheville said:

In stroke play, a player is virtually certain that their tee shot has come to rest in a yellow penalty area. The player properly drops another ball back-on-the-line under the penalty area relief Rule 17. Before playing the dropped ball and within 3 minutes the player finds the original ball outside the penalty area.

Which is correct?

    A.    The original ball is out of play; the player must proceed with the dropped ball with 1 penalty stroke.
    B.    The player must abandon the dropped ball and continue play with the original ball.
    C.    The player may play the original ball or the dropped ball with 1 penalty stroke.
 

We had a whole thread about this topic.  I thought I knew the correct answer, but I think there were better informed people who took the opposite view.

Spoiler

IIRC, it came down to whether the dropped ball was the ball in play as soon as it was dropped even before a stroke was made at it, and whether the dropped ball could be picked up to correct a mistake.

 

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Replies 71
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

You'll note that DaveP doesn't guess . . . he looks 'em up, beginning where? Beginning with Definitions! New one tomorrow. ☺    

Two easy ones about equipment. A ball may be substituted for if it becomes cut or cracked or scuffed.     A.    True     B.    False A player may borrow a ball from another player.   

😷:    

Posted Images

  • Moderator
17 minutes ago, Missouri Swede said:

We had a whole thread about this topic.  I thought I knew the correct answer, but I think there were better informed people who took the opposite view.

  Reveal hidden contents

IIRC, it came down to whether the dropped ball was the ball in play as soon as it was dropped even before a stroke was made at it, and whether the dropped ball could be picked up to correct a mistake.

 

Thanks for the reminder, I see that I initially answered that one the opposite from how I answered here.  In my defense, this initial question includes specific information that wasn't clear in that previous thread.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

The player proceeded correctly under 17.1d(2) when operating with KVC that the ball was in the penalty area. Unless the player was proceeding again from the teeing area (not the case here) that ball was in play once dropped and there is no going back. Subsequent new information - that the original ball is found within time limit and outside the penalty area - is irrelevant. That original ball is now a wrong ball and playing it would get the wrong ball penalty.

Rather perversely, if the player had proceeded to drop back on line thinking 17.1d(2) when the player did not have KVC the original ball was in the penalty area, and then the original is found within time and outside the penalty area, the player could proceed to play the original ball without penalty and either abandon or pick up the dropped ball, courtesy of 14.5b.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

A player hit their tee shot towards a road defined as out of bounds. The player then properly plays a provisional ball. After searching for 1 minute, the player is unable to find the original ball and therefore plays the provisional ball from a location nearer the hole than where the original ball was estimated to be. While walking towards the hole the player then finds the original ball on the course much closer to the hole than expected. The player must:

    A.    Continue play with the provisional ball.
    B.    Continue play with the original ball.
    C.    Continue play with the original ball only if it was found within 3 minutes.
 

Link to post
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Asheville said:

A player hit their tee shot towards a road defined as out of bounds. The player then properly plays a provisional ball. After searching for 1 minute, the player is unable to find the original ball and therefore plays the provisional ball from a location nearer the hole than where the original ball was estimated to be. While walking towards the hole the player then finds the original ball on the course much closer to the hole than expected. The player must:

    A.    Continue play with the provisional ball.
    B.    Continue play with the original ball.
    C.    Continue play with the original ball only if it was found within 3 minutes.
 

I will say 

Spoiler

"A" based on how I understood the "old" Rules.  Once one starts to hit the Provisional from a place closer to the hole than where one thought the original ball was lost, the Provisional becomes the ball in play.  The fact that the original ball was found further forward than expected was irrelevant.

Added: Found it - 18.3 c (2)

 

 

Edited by bkuehn1952
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

4 hours ago, Asheville said:

A player hit their tee shot towards a road defined as out of bounds. The player then properly plays a provisional ball. After searching for 1 minute, the player is unable to find the original ball and therefore plays the provisional ball from a location nearer the hole than where the original ball was estimated to be. While walking towards the hole the player then finds the original ball on the course much closer to the hole than expected. The player must:

    A.    Continue play with the provisional ball.
    B.    Continue play with the original ball.
    C.    Continue play with the original ball only if it was found within 3 minutes.
 

Spoiler

I'm thinking A.   Once the provisional ball is in play it becomes "the" ball.  

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

5 hours ago, Asheville said:

A player hit their tee shot towards a road defined as out of bounds. The player then properly plays a provisional ball. After searching for 1 minute, the player is unable to find the original ball and therefore plays the provisional ball from a location nearer the hole than where the original ball was estimated to be. While walking towards the hole the player then finds the original ball on the course much closer to the hole than expected. The player must:

    A.    Continue play with the provisional ball.
    B.    Continue play with the original ball.
    C.    Continue play with the original ball only if it was found within 3 minutes.
 

😷:

Spoiler

A.

It’s not the provisional ball after it’s been played nearer the hole than the estimated location of the original ball. It then became the ball in play.  18.3c(2)  

The original ball is no longer in play (even if it is then found on the course before the end of the three-minute search time or is found nearer the hole than had been estimated) and is now a wrong ball that must not be played

 

53 minutes ago, dennyjones said:
  Hide contents

I'm thinking A.   Once the provisional ball is in play it becomes "the" ball.  

 

Spoiler

I think the point is about when it is in play.  Just taking a second stroke at the provisional doesn’t make it in play. Here, the stroke closer than the estimated location is what makes the difference.

 I’m sure I’ll get corrected if I’ve got this askew (actually, I hope I get corrected if I’m off) by better minds than mine.  Shoot, I’m still confused about yesterday’s question.

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

10 hours ago, Missouri Swede said:

😷:

  Reveal hidden contents

A.

It’s not the provisional ball after it’s been played nearer the hole than the estimated location of the original ball. It then became the ball in play.  18.3c(2)  

The original ball is no longer in play (even if it is then found on the course before the end of the three-minute search time or is found nearer the hole than had been estimated) and is now a wrong ball that must not be played

 

  Hide contents

I think the point is about when it is in play.  Just taking a second stroke at the provisional doesn’t make it in play. Here, the stroke closer than the estimated location is what makes the difference.

 I’m sure I’ll get corrected if I’ve got this askew (actually, I hope I get corrected if I’m off) by better minds than mine.  Shoot, I’m still confused about yesterday’s question.

 

Nothing to correct here, you're on the money.

Link to post
Share on other sites

A rut made by a tractor is always ground under repair because it is a hole made by the maintenance staff whether or not it is marked as ground under repair.

    A.    True
    B.    False
 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Asheville said:

A rut made by a tractor is always ground under repair because it is a hole made by the maintenance staff whether or not it is marked as ground under repair.

    A.    True
    B.    False
 

Well let's quibble ...

Spoiler

If the rut is in a Penalty Area or Sand Bunker, then the answer is B. False.  If in the General Area, I would say A True.  Now off I go to the Rule Book.

Sigh ... got it wrong.  In the Interpretations area of Definitions ...

Examples of damage that is not ground under repair by default include:

A rut made by a tractor (but the Committee is justified in declaring a deep rut to be ground under repair).

 

Edited by bkuehn1952
Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

1 hour ago, Asheville said:

A rut made by a tractor is always ground under repair because it is a hole made by the maintenance staff whether or not it is marked as ground under repair.

    A.    True
    B.    False
 

Spoiler

A.  If not, I have a serious talk with the tractor driver!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

2 hours ago, boogielicious said:

Use the eyeball icon on the tool bar.

  Reveal hidden contents

Like this!

Thanks.

3 hours ago, Asheville said:

A rut made by a tractor is always ground under repair because it is a hole made by the maintenance staff whether or not it is marked as ground under repair.

    A.    True
    B.    False
 

Spoiler

False, Ground Under Repair/1

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

5 hours ago, Asheville said:

A rut made by a tractor is always ground under repair because it is a hole made by the maintenance staff whether or not it is marked as ground under repair.

    A.    True
    B.    False
 

This one I looked up before trying to answer, because I knew that there were some “this, but not if” aspect to it (at least in the old rules).

Spoiler

B. False.

The second clause is true.  But evidently a rut isn’t a hole. (Interesting that the Rules use the term “hole” here in a sense different from the two uses mentioned in definition of “hole.”)  The first part is wrong because it’s specified as not GUR unless declared so by the Committee.

A hole made by maintenance staff is ground under repair even when not marked as ground under repair. However, not all damage caused by maintenance staff is ground under repair by default.

Examples of damage that is not ground under repair by default include:

A rut made by a tractor (but the Committee is justified in declaring a deep rut to be ground under repair).

 

Edited by Missouri Swede
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Always check those Local Rules. Many courses, including mine, have "clearly defined wheel ruts"  or words to that effect, as GUR. And it is on many Hard Cards.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • Support TST Affiliates

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    Whoop
    SuperSpeed
    FlightScope Mevo
    Use the code "iacas" for 10% off Mevo and the code "iacasjun21" for 10% off SuperSpeed.
  • Posts

    • @alexschoI would suggest a UW to fill the gap between the PW and SW. If you're a high handicap, I'm not sure you need a 58 degree wedge.  Your priority on short game shots isn't "get it close" (but that's great if you can), but rather "get the ball on the green;  within spots on the green, priority is to spots close to the hole."  But I wouldn't just now use a club that many high handicappers usage tends to risk leaving themselves with yet another short game shot.
    • Good luck.  Make sure you know the rules, of course;  people can and do get casual with the rules during non-tournament play.  Make sure you know what local rules are in effect, too;  you don't want to Jerry Rice yourself out of a tournament if, for example, laser range finders aren't allowed but you use one. 
    • 87 today at my home course.  Hit 4 GIR:  holes 1, 17, and 18, but only one in between (#8, a 4-wood into the wind to about 15', had a tap-in par on that one).
    • Day 151.  Tournament at my home course today.  I shot an 87 with 4 GIR and 7 near-GIR.  Now that I write that out, I feel my long game was better than that stat line today, but I guess not.  I did some full swing practice before the round, outdoors at the range, checking my backswing length as per my past month or so of work.
    • Secured a par at my home course's hole #17 today.  I am not happy with how long it took me to get better than bogey on it.  I hit a poor tee shot, a good recovery punch shot, then a sweeping hook 6-iron to the green.  I correctly read that the lie and setup would hook, aimed well left of the green, and swung.  Big hook, ended on the left side of the green, 15' from the pin, and I darn near made the birdie putt too. Speaking of which, I gave a par at #s 7 and 9 a good run today too.  Still no birdies at my home course this year! 😞 
  • Today's Birthdays

    1. chriswuk
      chriswuk
      (30 years old)
    2. Gero
      Gero
      (78 years old)
    3. nettscore
      nettscore
      (50 years old)
    4. RandMart3
      RandMart3
      (69 years old)

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...