General COVID-19 Topic

[iacas]

46 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

Did they want just the front or both sides? There really nothing on the back of mine.

The front has everything on it.

11 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

You have all you need to know about the Pfizer, Moderna and J&J vaccines. The same methods to show efficacy and side effects for all other vaccines have been used on these. And these COVID-19 vaccines are showing to be more effective and have less side effects than previous vaccines.

Yup.

[David in FL]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

You have all you need to know about the Pfizer, Moderna and J&J vaccines. The same methods to show efficacy and side effects for all other vaccines have been used on these. And these COVID-19 vaccines are showing to be more effective and have less side effects than previous vaccines. Please David, just get the vaccine.

While you feel you have all the information you need, I don’t.

We know there are side affects, but have no idea about longer-term side affects.  We have no idea if boosters will be required or how effective the vaccine will be against variants.  These things take time.  

The vaccine seems pretty effective so far, so that’s good news.  If you’re happy with your choice to be vaccinated at this point, I’m happy for you.  

[iacas]

29 minutes ago, David in FL said:

We know there are side affects, but have no idea about longer-term side affects.  We have no idea if boosters will be required or how effective the vaccine will be against variants.  These things take time.

We know how the immune system works. And it’s not a booster if you didn’t get the first one.

Excuses. Your earlier comment about “clinical trial” highlights your ignorance here. The only question is how willful it is.

On a small level you’re failing to live up to your duties as a citizen of society.

[Double Mocha Man]

2 hours ago, David in FL said:

I’m not anti-vac at all.  Just waiting till we know more about this one.  

You need to balance waiting against harming someone else. It kind of comes down to that.

[David in FL]

11 minutes ago, iacas said:

We know how the immune system works. And it’s not a booster if you didn’t get the first one.

Excuses. Your earlier comment about “clinical trial” highlights your ignorance here. The only question is how willful it is.

On a small level you’re failing to live up to your duties as a citizen of society.

We disagree that it’s my “duty” to take medication that may or may not benefit someone, else even though the risk from the virus itself is extraordinarily small to me and you.

If doing so makes you feel better about yourself, have at it though.  No judgement from me.  
 

I’m curious.  Given that it’s likely that we’ll never surpass about 65% vaccinated, do you intend to continue to wear a mask and social distance in all situations where you may be in contact with people you don’t know?  Again, not judging, genuinely curious.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

You need to balance waiting against harming someone else. It kind of comes down to that.

If they’re vaccinated, I thought the risk to them was next to nothing.

If they’re not vaccinated, aren’t they deciding to take that risk on their own?

 

[Double Mocha Man]

18 minutes ago, David in FL said:

If they’re vaccinated, I thought the risk to them was next to nothing.

If they’re not vaccinated, aren’t they deciding to take that risk on their own?

 

You can still infect someone, right now, who is under 12 or is waiting on a vaccine. There are also the "breakthrough" cases ... those don't happen out of thin air.

Edited May 14, 2021 by Double Mocha Man

[David in FL]

2 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

You can still infect someone, right now, who is under 12 or is waiting on a vaccine. There are also the "breakthrough" cases ... those don't happen out of thin air.

And the breakthrough cases, because they’re, by definition vaccinated,  have very, very little risk of serious illness.  As do the young.   

[Double Mocha Man]

1 minute ago, David in FL said:

And the breakthrough cases, because they’re, by definition vaccinated,  have very, very little risk of serious illness.  As do the young.   

Hmmm... you're making the idea of being vaccinated sound very, very good. 😁

[iacas]

28 minutes ago, David in FL said:

We disagree that it’s my “duty” to take medication that may or may not benefit someone, else even though the risk from the virus itself is extraordinarily small to me and you.

You're being a bad member of society, yeah, that's my opinion.

You're pretending to be this pseudo-intellectual "I'll wait and see" approach when the information is out there. It's bullshit.

28 minutes ago, David in FL said:

If doing so makes you feel better about yourself, have at it though.  No judgement from me.

It's not about that, no.

28 minutes ago, David in FL said:

I’m curious.  Given that it’s likely that we’ll never surpass about 65% vaccinated, do you intend to continue to wear a mask and social distance in all situations where you may be in contact with people you don’t know?  Again, not judging, genuinely curious.

Nope. Because I'm vaccinated, and I understand the science.

I don't blindly follow things, but you're almost blindly stating mistruths as if they're facts. You criticized me for not having an end-date months ago, but your "when we know more" doesn't have an end date, and we know a f*** ton more about the vaccines than we did about the pandemic as a whole back in February when you were making those statements.

But thanks for your service, Leon. 😛

[Zippo]

14 minutes ago, David in FL said:

We disagree that it’s my “duty” to take medication that may or may not benefit someone, else even though the risk from the virus itself is extraordinarily small to me and you.

If doing so makes you feel better about yourself, have at it though.  No judgement from me.  
 

I’m curious.  Given that it’s likely that we’ll never surpass about 65% vaccinated, do you intend to continue to wear a mask and social distance in all situations where you may be in contact with people you don’t know?  Again, not judging, genuinely curious.

 

 

If they’re vaccinated, I thought the risk to them was next to nothing.

If they’re not vaccinated, aren’t they deciding to take that risk on their own?

 

That attitude seems to me to be pretty selfish. Taking the vaccine WILL benefit everyone not ""may". That has been proven. You'll reduce the risk that you'll become the host for a new variant that will render the current vaccines ineffective when you yourself are vaccinated. And, you have no way to tell if the person you're around is vaccinated or not. And how do you actually know what the "risk" is to any particular person from a disease that's already killed more than 3,250,000 people worldwide with over 650,000 here?

You mentioned a "concern about "long term" health effects but you are pretty vague on what "long term" actually means to you. The smallpox vaccine use is what, 60 or 70 years old now? And you're right, it's possible that everyone who got that vaccine may suddenly suffer some long term effect, that we didn't know about, any day now. The government had to use macrochips back then 'cause the microchips weren't available so, watch out!

Do you seriously think that 150,000,000 people are going to suddenly drop dead because they got a vaccine that protected them and others from a known deadly sickness? Do you think that's going to happen all on the same day or a specific time period from the day they got their shot?

I met a person who also expressed concern over the "long term effects" of the vaccine. He said this as he was lighting a cigarette. He probably got a burger and fries on his way home. Some people will come up with any excuse not to do what's right so that they can whine about exercising their "personal freedom".

[Double Mocha Man]

11 minutes ago, David in FL said:

17 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

You can still infect someone, right now, who is under 12 or is waiting on a vaccine. There are also the "breakthrough" cases ... those don't happen out of thin air.

Expand  

And the breakthrough cases, because they’re, by definition vaccinated,  have very, very little risk of serious illness.  As do the young.   

"A 2-month-old from Michigan died this week of COVID-19 and is believed to be the state's youngest victim of the virus.

"Children are not spared from this disease," said Dr. Joneigh Khaldun, chief medical executive and chief deputy for health at the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services..."

On the other hand maybe a young child wouldn't get infected but she sure would suffer watching her father/grandfather die of Covid-19.  Yep, that guy was too stubborn to get the shot.

[saevel25]

13 minutes ago, David in FL said:

We disagree that it’s my “duty” to take medication that may or may not benefit someone, else even though the risk from the virus itself is extraordinarily small to me and you.

It really is kind-of a no brainer here. Outside of any medical concern, there is really no reason not to take the vaccine. 

Lets define may or may not benefit, because the way you talk you make it seem like it's a 50/50 chance. It's not, it's 5-6% chance the vaccine does not work. Which is an amazingly small number. Versus, the odds of you catching the COVID is stupidly high since its a Virus that is designed to spread between humans. Like, you have a 80% chance of catching COVID due to herd immunity. So... 5% chance of catching COVID versus 80% chance of catching COVID...

So, I have 20% chance of not catching COVID versus 5% chance if taking the vaccine. Of that 80% chance of catching COVID, I have a 40% chance of having mild to severe symptoms, versus the small inconvenience of 12 hours of arm pain due to the shot and feeling kind-of meh for 12 hours. 

Also, a 95% chance of knowing I am not spreading this virus to someone else and doing my part to keeping other safe... Kind of a no brainer. 

Come on, give me a valid reason outside of you just don't want to. Unless your doctor tells you not to take it because you have some sort of pre-existing condition, you have no valid reason to skip taking the vaccine. The only excuse you have is just some obstinate contrarianism because it makes you feel good. 

26 minutes ago, David in FL said:

I’m curious.  Given that it’s likely that we’ll never surpass about 65% vaccinated, do you intend to continue to wear a mask and social distance in all situations where you may be in contact with people you don’t know?  Again, not judging, genuinely curious.

Depends on the situation and what new information about the virus comes out. If I need a third booster shot, I will get it. 

27 minutes ago, David in FL said:

If they’re not vaccinated, aren’t they deciding to take that risk on their own?

This is a stupid way to think about it. We don't live in our own bubbles here. We live in a society, and there should be some sort responsibility here. Guess what, the virus doesn't care about your individual right to catch it or spread the virus. You catch it, you become a biological weapon. That is a fact. You catch it, you spread it. 

Them deciding to take the risk on their own means they are not thinking about the fact that they could spread it to people who don't want to take the risk. 

8 minutes ago, Zippo said:

That attitude seems to me to be pretty selfish.

That is the point. He wants proudly shout from the mountain top that he has the right to be selfish. 

[David in FL]

1 minute ago, Zippo said:

You'll reduce the risk that you'll become the host for a new variant that will render the current vaccines ineffective when you yourself are vaccinated.

One of the things we don’t know yet, that I’d like to know.  Are the current vaccines effective against the many variants out there already, and against the many more that will inevitably come?

 

1 minute ago, Zippo said:

And, you have no way to tell if the person you're around is vaccinated or not.

If someone refuses to take the vaccine, aren’t they responsible for their risk?  I certainly would blame anyone else if I were to contract the virus.

 

6 minutes ago, Zippo said:

You mentioned a "concern about "long term" health effects but you are pretty vague on what "long term" actually means to you. The smallpox vaccine use is what, 60 or 70 years old now? And you're right, it's possible that everyone who got that vaccine may suddenly suffer some long term effect, that we didn't know about, any day now.

Let’s say longer than the 6 months or so that we’ve been vaccinating people in any numbers

FWIW, I was vaccinated against smallpox.  No worries.  But again it’s worth remembering that smallpox had a 30% mortality rate.  Not something like 0.05% for those outside of a pretty well defined demographic.

[David in FL]

3 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

It really is kind-of a no brainer here. Outside of any medical concern, there is really no reason not to take the vaccine. 

 

Come on, give me a valid reason outside of you just don't want to. Unless your doctor tells you not to take it because you have some sort of pre-existing condition, you have no valid reason to skip taking the vaccine. The only excuse you have is just some obstinate contrarianism because it makes you feel good. 

 

In your opinion.

I’ve given many reasons.  The fact that you don’t consider them valid doesn’t mean that they’re not.

The fact that you consider me to be “selfish” doesn’t bother me in the least.  My first responsibility is to me and my family.  Yours is to yours.  We do what we think is best given our analysis of the information at hand.

 

 

[Double Mocha Man]

57 minutes ago, David in FL said:

We disagree that it’s my “duty” to take medication...

Is it correct that you were in the Marines? Your duty there, ultimately, was to give your life for your country. You've come a long way from that.

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, David in FL said:

One of the things we don’t know yet, that I’d like to know.  Are the current vaccines effective against the many variants out there already, and against the many more that will inevitably come?

You don’t seem to understand how dumb that is.

13 minutes ago, David in FL said:

If someone refuses to take the vaccine, aren’t they responsible for their risk?  I certainly would blame anyone else if I were to contract the virus.

Or this.

And we’re at six months now.

3 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Is it correct that you were in the Marines? Your duty there, ultimately, was to give your life for your country. You've come a long way from that.

Indeed. Your duty is to society too.

[David in FL]

2 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Is it correct that you were in the Marines? Your duty there, ultimately, was to give your life for your country. You've come a long way from that.

I retired from the Maine Corps.  If you’d like to chat about the sacrifice and selflessness that goes with having served in peacetime and war, I’ll be happy to help overcome your ignorance, but this isn’t the thread for that...

[Double Mocha Man]

3 minutes ago, David in FL said:

I retired from the Maine Corps.  If you’d like to chat about the sacrifice and selflessness that goes with having served in peacetime and war, I’ll be happy to help overcome your ignorance, but this isn’t the thread for that...

You would be preaching to the choir. I served in the military myself.

And, if you've noted, I've refrained from using the word "ignorance".