Core Golf Swing Lies - A Bunch of BS (We've Given Up on Waiting for Substance… None is Coming)

[iacas]

11 minutes ago, ellamia said:

I know ya'll don't want to, but here is the first bit of substance.

Substance is all anyone's been asking for — it's in the topic title now — and you come on here and say "I know y'all don't want to"?

11 minutes ago, ellamia said:

For instance, I talk about wanting you to forget what you know about sequence and release all components (hips, arms, hands unhinging - all at the same time and directed away from the target and around a larger arc).

Answer this for me, please, @ellamia: do you realize that this says nothing? That there is absolutely no substance here?

What are you talking about?

Good golfers do not "release all components all at the same time". It sounds very early on like you're going to talk about "feels" rather than what's actually real, what good golfers actually do. Good luck with that. Facts are not going to support many of your findings if you go that route.

11 minutes ago, ellamia said:

If you shift your weight and can't stop believing that you need to do that, then this new sequence will never feel right.

This says nothing.

When are you talking about "shifting your weight"? You're aware of the fact that good golfers shift their weight back and then forward during the downswing and backswing, right?

What measurements have you had done on your swing so that we can talk about what's really happening versus what you think is happening, or feel?

11 minutes ago, ellamia said:

Lie 1 if you take the club too far back, it may cause you to shift your weight, so length of back swing is also directly connected to lie 2.

I can shift my weight without even moving the clubhead from behind the ball.

Heck, just swinging your arms back halfway "causes you to shift your weight." So, again, what are you actually talking about?

11 minutes ago, ellamia said:

The physics of swinging your arms faster for more power will work, but the ratio of how fast your hands have to be if you swing the club with your arms 10 mph faster is physically impossible.

Talk about that, because if you want to talk about actual physics, several people here know plenty about that. We're good at math. So let's have something more than just the bullshit you've offered thus far.

I've had students swing faster by becoming aware of the fact that they have to move their arms a bit faster.

Why is 10 MPH your number? Do you know the peak hand speed of good players? Do you know when it occurs? (Mid- to low-20 MPH range, and surprisingly early - just as the hands pass below waist level, generally speaking).

So, yeah, 10 MPH might be unreasonable, because few are going to go from 18 MPH to 28 MPH, but people can go from 18 to 21 or 22, and they can change when and how they generate that speed.

11 minutes ago, ellamia said:

When you start using the new sequence {(which all of us use when we take this silky smooth practice swing)  we don't shift, we don't do anything weird, we just find the right path for the club and the right temp.}

Do you know this or are you guessing and/or going off feels? I think it's the latter.

11 minutes ago, ellamia said:

If you fire everything at the same time, hands releasing, arms moving and body and hips turning, you'll see that everything accelerates in a controlled manner.

No, we won't, because like the above, I doubt you're doing much different than this:

11 minutes ago, ellamia said:

If you had 10 people in a line ice skating holding hands and you wanted to go in a big circle make the guy on the end go as fast as possible, then you wouldn't have the middle guy turn as fast as he can.  If he did that, every person couldn't get up and get around the circle.

That's not how the golf swing works. The various body segments aren't held together by the equivalent of one person holding the hand of another person.

11 minutes ago, ellamia said:

As opposed to all 10 people start at the same time, the last guy can accelerate as fast as he wants to, the 9th guy, would feel the tension/connection with guy-10 and match how fast he needs to go.  Everything works in sync and if you notice (hips/the center guy) is barely turning.

Great for turning in a circle on skates. Doesn't apply to the golf swing like you seem to think it does.

11 minutes ago, ellamia said:

My technique teaches a short 1/2 back swing.  The "half-shot".

Does it now?

BTW, that's a helluva flat looking backswing. You do know that gravity can help golfers hit it farther, too, right?

Also, your hips are open to square in the image on the right-hand side.

Oh, and I guarantee you have more weight on your right foot than your left above, and you definitely have more pressure there.

11 minutes ago, ellamia said:

I have always mentally matched a 1/2 back swing with 50% effort on the down swing.

Feel ain't real.

11 minutes ago, ellamia said:

A lot of words....

… that say next to nothing.

11 minutes ago, ellamia said:

Philosophy . . .  We all behave and act according to what we believe.

I like to "believe" in science. Facts. Reality.

11 minutes ago, ellamia said:

Philosophy . . .  We all behave and act according to what we believe.  I didn't know the truth about fire when I was young, maybe even touched it, even though someone told me it was hot and to not touch it.  But the moment, I experienced that it was hot and could burn me, my behavior changed and I don't touch fire anymore.  (Don't laugh at me, I fell in a fire when I was 2.....or maybe my brother pushed me)  Once you identify the lies that you believe and you want something better, then it is easy to break the old habits.  It doesn't take a lot of practice, you just have to stop believing old things and understand that there is something better.  This is how it is in life.  We have to position ourselves correctly, in order to do things in the right sequence to have success.  If we get in the right position (LIE 1 and 2) then we can do things in the right direction and the right sequence (Lie 3,4 and 5) with little or no effort.  We will have more power because of physics and we will have pure ball striking, because our body is anchored and you aren't moving right and left during the whole of the swing.  All this birthed from a prayer ministry called Transformation Prayer Ministry, where there are lies that we believe about ourselves that cause us to behave in certain ways.  We find solutions or strategies to deal with what we might believe.  In golf our solutions to the techniques that are lies (in Shanks Opinion) are to compensate, or flip the club, or practice more, or not think when we're playing good, (isn't that what pros say when they shoot a 59?  I don't know, I wasn't thinking, I stayed out of my own way)  If you've ever hit what you would consider the perfect shot.  Ball flight, trajectory, power, distance....felt like butter, then you have unintentionally probably swung the club in a manner I am proposing.  Why do you think the techniques that golf pros are teaching are right when 26 million people can't break 90?  The game doesn't feel that hard when you are playing well.  So what happens when you lose your swing from one hole to the next.

Wow, a whole bunch of bull there.

Dude.

To the bold, no, they didn't suddenly make a completely different swing. They just happened to time everything, and honestly, they probably still didn't make a great swing with Tour-level speed, impact alignments, etc. They just hit a great shot for them. A few things were lined up or timed up a bit better. That's all.

And to the red… because golf is f***ing hard. And many people never take a lesson.

You're a 4.0 index, Jarrod, and you're only that low because you have only 7 posted rounds, the last of which was posted 09/2019. But please, continue to tell us what PGA Tour players are doing wrong, or my scratch golfers, or collegiate golfers. Or my daughter, who would have to give you a few shots.

11 minutes ago, ellamia said:

So obviously and provably wrong.

Feel ain't real, Jarrod.

---

Look, @ellamia/Jarrod, as good as you were at gymnastics, you're in my world now. As much time as you spent training to do what you did, I've spent training to do what I do.

Now, that could be a reason to stay "stuck in my ways," but I have a background in sciences, and a deep appreciation for being disruptive, for learning what actually occurs, reality, science…

Your stuff here has none of that. It's just another scheme thought up by someone who thinks they've "solved" the golf swing. It's BS. Malarkey.

You've offered no substance. Your own swing likely doesn't resemble what you propose, and you seem to be relying on what you feel you're doing along with some horrible analogies to try to "prove" your point.

You had your shot. You blew it. You've got nothing.

---

Here's a small celebration of things you do (or did) well.

 

[Vinsk]

39 minutes ago, iacas said:

Substance is all anyone's been asking for — it's in the topic title now — and you come on here and say "I know y'all don't want to"?

Answer this for me, please, @ellamia: do you realize that this says nothing? That there is absolutely no substance here?

What are you talking about?

Good golfers do not "release all components all at the same time". It sounds very early on like you're going to talk about "feels" rather than what's actually real, what good golfers actually do. Good luck with that. Facts are not going to support many of your findings if you go that route.

This says nothing.

When are you talking about "shifting your weight"? You're aware of the fact that good golfers shift their weight back and then forward during the downswing and backswing, right?

What measurements have you had done on your swing so that we can talk about what's really happening versus what you think is happening, or feel?

I can shift my weight without even moving the clubhead from behind the ball.

Heck, just swinging your arms back halfway "causes you to shift your weight." So, again, what are you actually talking about?

Talk about that, because if you want to talk about actual physics, several people here know plenty about that. We're good at math. So let's have something more than just the bullshit you've offered thus far.

I've had students swing faster by becoming aware of the fact that they have to move their arms a bit faster.

Why is 10 MPH your number? Do you know the peak hand speed of good players? Do you know when it occurs? (Mid- to low-20 MPH range, and surprisingly early - just as the hands pass below waist level, generally speaking).

So, yeah, 10 MPH might be unreasonable, because few are going to go from 18 MPH to 28 MPH, but people can go from 18 to 21 or 22, and they can change when and how they generate that speed.

Do you know this or are you guessing and/or going off feels? I think it's the latter.

No, we won't, because like the above, I doubt you're doing much different than this:

That's not how the golf swing works. The various body segments aren't held together by the equivalent of one person holding the hand of another person.

Great for turning in a circle on skates. Doesn't apply to the golf swing like you seem to think it does.

Does it now?

BTW, that's a helluva flat looking backswing. You do know that gravity can help golfers hit it farther, too, right?

Also, your hips are open to square in the image on the right-hand side.

Oh, and I guarantee you have more weight on your right foot than your left above, and you definitely have more pressure there.

Feel ain't real.

… that say next to nothing.

I like to "believe" in science. Facts. Reality.

Wow, a whole bunch of bull there.

Dude.

To the bold, no, they didn't suddenly make a completely different swing. They just happened to time everything, and honestly, they probably still didn't make a great swing with Tour-level speed, impact alignments, etc. They just hit a great shot for them. A few things were lined up or timed up a bit better. That's all.

And to the red… because golf is f***ing hard. And many people never take a lesson.

You're a 4.0 index, Jarrod, and you're only that low because you have only 7 posted rounds, the last of which was posted 09/2019. But please, continue to tell us what PGA Tour players are doing wrong, or my scratch golfers, or collegiate golfers. Or my daughter, who would have to give you a few shots.

So obviously and provably wrong.

Feel ain't real, Jarrod.

---

Look, @ellamia/Jarrod, as good as you were at gymnastics, you're in my world now. As much time as you spent training to do what you did, I've spent training to do what I do.

Now, that could be a reason to stay "stuck in my ways," but I have a background in sciences, and a deep appreciation for being disruptive, for learning what actually occurs, reality, science…

Your stuff here has none of that. It's just another scheme thought up by someone who thinks they've "solved" the golf swing. It's BS. Malarkey.

You've offered no substance. Your own swing likely doesn't resemble what you propose, and you seem to be relying on what you feel you're doing along with some horrible analogies to try to "prove" your point.

You had your shot. You blew it. You've got nothing.

---

Here's a small celebration of things you do (or did) well.

 

[boogielicious]

As expected, a diatribe of hooey. Are the Cyrillic Symbols spossed ta make ya seem smart?

[Vinsk]

3 hours ago, iacas said:

What measurements have you had done on your swing so that we can talk about what's really happening versus what you think is happening, or feel?

He went to the TPI and they said it’s biomechanically sound.

[Zippo]

LOL! I think you're all missing the point. However, using my advanced knowledge and applying my incredibly high handicap, I can provide you with the following, simple translation:

"Simply de-rotate the harmonic ionic balancer while contiguously grafting the mutational wheel-like clubhead path to right wrist delofted "micronic ebulator" (patent pending). You may also need to repopulate the grip end with nan-atomic circular quantum entangled whipish roundness traveling through one or the other shoulder (but not both at once). Remember that the clubhead path cannot be simultaneously measured, predicted, produced, and enhanced if you believe lies 1 through 82. It is, however, OK to believe lie 83 if it's a Tuesday when, as surely all should know, club face and golf ball can be conjoined shankishly. Video of this obvious info will make everything clear and will be forthcoming immediately as soon as they invent a video machine capable of capturing motion in all 12 dimensions of the multiverse including sound. Sending your payment now will speed up production considerably and put you in line for enhanced quality with overdub and automatic note taking."

 😁

[Vinsk]

5 minutes ago, Zippo said:

LOL! I think you're all missing the point. However, using my advanced knowledge and applying my incredibly high handicap, I can provide you with the following, simple translation:

"Simply de-rotate the harmonic ionic balancer while contiguously grafting the mutational wheel-like clubhead path to right wrist delofted "micronic ebulator" (patent pending). You may also need to repopulate the grip end with nan-atomic circular quantum entangled whipish roundness traveling through one or the other shoulder (but not both at once). Remember that the clubhead path cannot be simultaneously measured, predicted, produced, and enhanced if you believe lies 1 through 82. It is, however, OK to believe lie 83 if it's a Tuesday when, as surely all should know, club face and golf ball can be conjoined shankishly. Video of this obvious info will make everything clear and will be forthcoming immediately as soon as they invent a video machine capable of capturing motion in all 12 dimensions of the multiverse including sound. Sending your payment now will speed up production considerably and put you in line for enhanced quality with overdub and automatic note taking."

 😁

So in a nutshell:

[Double Mocha Man]

.

22 minutes ago, Zippo said:

LOL! I think you're all missing the point. However, using my advanced knowledge and applying my incredibly high handicap, I can provide you with the following, simple translation:

"Simply de-rotate the harmonic ionic balancer while contiguously grafting the mutational wheel-like clubhead path to right wrist delofted "micronic ebulator" (patent pending). You may also need to repopulate the grip end with nan-atomic circular quantum entangled whipish roundness traveling through one or the other shoulder (but not both at once). Remember that the clubhead path cannot be simultaneously measured, predicted, produced, and enhanced if you believe lies 1 through 82. It is, however, OK to believe lie 83 if it's a Tuesday when, as surely all should know, club face and golf ball can be conjoined shankishly. Video of this obvious info will make everything clear and will be forthcoming immediately as soon as they invent a video machine capable of capturing motion in all 12 dimensions of the multiverse including sound. Sending your payment now will speed up production considerably and put you in line for enhanced quality with overdub and automatic note taking."

 😁

Zippo, apparently some pretty sharp people live in Custer.  Did you write that in Tony's Tavern?

Edited June 20, 2020 by Double Mocha Man

[Zippo]

3 hours ago, Vinsk said:

So in a nutshell:

Yeah, @Vinsk, that's close but let me simplify further for those others who may not watch informative infomercials like we do:

Of course, this is done with the eyes closed to eliminate distractions such as the golf ball...

[rebelrob]

6/10 would read again but needs more dragons.

[iacas]

Or cowbell.

[ellamia]

The kinematic sequence is the tried and true accepted way to swing a golf club.  It produces the most clubhead speed, granted, but with it comes a lot of chaos in what you might expect from one swing to another.  I propose that there is another way, nearly as efficient at creating power, but without all the variables and changes in variables that create unpredictable results.  

I think the clubhead speed we must mostly be concerned with is how fast the clubhead is going around the hands, not necessarily how fast it is going around your whole body.  If you have thoughts, please share.  Be nice.... I have seen unbelievable results when you start focusing on the release of the club as your number one.  

Stay tuned for more.

 

Jarrod Hanks

[iacas]

3 hours ago, ellamia said:

The kinematic sequence is the tried and true accepted way to swing a golf club.  It produces the most clubhead speed, granted, but with it comes a lot of chaos in what you might expect from one swing to another.  I propose that there is another way, nearly as efficient at creating power, but without all the variables and changes in variables that create unpredictable results.  

I think the clubhead speed we must mostly be concerned with is how fast the clubhead is going around the hands, not necessarily how fast it is going around your whole body.  If you have thoughts, please share.  Be nice.... I have seen unbelievable results when you start focusing on the release of the club as your number one.

First, I merged your accounts. One human, one account @ellamia.

Second, I merged your post into your existing topic.

Just now, iacas said:

but with it comes a lot of chaos in what you might expect from one swing to another

Third, you haven't changed, apparently, because you're still just making claims with no real proof. IIRC, when we last discussed all of this, we asked you for some definitive information, and you've never provided it.