Does Your Course Charge Extra to Ride Solo?

[Double Mocha Man]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

And sometimes it's an actual fire. Sometimes it's someone roasting marshmallows in their back yard.

Right. Look, you're just insisting that your point of view is the only one that is "right." And that's fine, but the course disagrees. Give a "free upgrade" to one guy and others will expect it, too.

I'll bring the marshmallows if you promise to stay 6 feet away from me, and downwind.

I am supporting my point of view.  Others can agree or disagree.  Saevel25 has this quote at the bottom of every post he makes:  "A good conversation is not designed to win the argument. It is designed to enjoy the exchange."

Erik, are you not enjoying the exchange?

[iacas]

12 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I am supporting my point of view.  Others can agree or disagree.  Saevel25 has this quote at the bottom of every post he makes:  "A good conversation is not designed to win the argument. It is designed to enjoy the exchange."

Erik, are you not enjoying the exchange?

I disagree that you're "supporting your point of view." You're just repeating yourself and refusing to acknowledge that many/most disagree with you about what the course's obligations (moral, fiscal, etc.) are.

Nothing new has been added in days. So…

[Double Mocha Man]

43 minutes ago, iacas said:

I disagree that you're "supporting your point of view." You're just repeating yourself and refusing to acknowledge that many/most disagree with you about what the course's obligations (moral, fiscal, etc.) are.

Nothing new has been added in days. So…

Wrong.  I have added a lot of new stuff in the last few days.  1) Which courses are guilty, 2) Math showing the number of carts used on the un-named course, 3) News of a local pro making exceptions.  And more.

Also, I have talked with 4 golfers, besides Mark, who think the large upcharge is unfair, in these times.  So there's more new info.

[boogielicious]

2 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I'll bring the marshmallows if you promise to stay 6 feet away from me, and downwind.

I am supporting my point of view.  Others can agree or disagree.  Saevel25 has this quote at the bottom of every post he makes:  "A good conversation is not designed to win the argument. It is designed to enjoy the exchange."

Erik, are you not enjoying the exchange?

I can bring the chocolate bars and Graham Crackers! We can steal a couple of carts, grab a hibachi and drive around cooking S’mores at 20 mph!

[djake]

On 7/20/2020 at 10:38 PM, Double Mocha Man said:

I think I'm making a solid case.  You, and everyone else, have the right to agree or disagr

Sorry, I don't see how you are making a solid case so far.  I do see that you are stating a solid opinion.

The courses up here are packed, from the Public, Private Public and Private.  All are packed.  They all have different rules as well regarding carts.

The Private course i joined this year would not allow cart usage on Mondays, walking only.  The wear and tear on the course was a significant concern.  Also during that time they only allowed 1 rider per cart. They got more carts in at a higher cost and now opened up cart usage on Mondays. They also installed a screen splitting the middle of the cart so people from different families can ride together.   I still walk the course as many of us do. And it is not flat, it is one beast to walk.

Personally I don't care what each individual course decides to do with cart fees.  I respect their individual business decisions because that is what it is, a business decision.  I still play some Public and Private Public courses and each course has different rules.  

Your opinion is that and is fine, but based on economics and tee sheets here. If you didn't like 1 courses cart fees and moved the course wouldn't feel loss of income as that tee spot would be taken by someone else.  It's just that busy.

While the courses are full remember all of them up here that have banquet facilities have had all of their banquets canceled and corporate golf outings canceled.  Those are significant revenue streams that are at $0.00 on the P&L.  So let the courses charge what they feel is fair or they will not make it. 

Also, I have been told, courses rarely make money with carts.  Mostly a break even situation thus putting even more financial stress on the bottom line.

Honestly, if you can physically walk do so. It is better for the course, better for you and better for the profitability of the course.

[Double Mocha Man]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

I can bring the chocolate bars and Graham Crackers! We can steal a couple of carts, grab a hibachi and drive around cooking S’mores at 20 mph!

I'm all over that, but only if you can remove the governor from the carts.

[boogielicious]

3 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

I'm all over that, but only if you can remove the governor from the carts.

We have the tools and we have the talent!

[Double Mocha Man]

1 hour ago, djake said:

Sorry, I don't see how you are making a solid case so far.  I do see that you are stating a solid opinion.

The courses up here are packed, from the Public, Private Public and Private.  All are packed.  They all have different rules as well regarding carts.

Your opinion is that and is fine, but based on economics and tee sheets here. If you didn't like 1 courses cart fees and moved the course wouldn't feel loss of income as that tee spot would be taken by someone else.  It's just that busy.

Honestly, if you can physically walk do so. It is better for the course, better for you and better for the profitability of the course.

djake... I don't think you've read all the posts.  Though I understand it is a lot to read.  The courses here are okay but are not packed.  I made that point earlier.  So if someone moves to another course they are gone, they are not replaced on the tee sheet.  It is lost revenue for the course.

My case was not just opinion... I based it on proven marketing concepts and positive PR, between competing entities.

The course in question is the only one where I use a power cart, otherwise I walk.  The course in question might better be named Mt. Everest.

7 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

We have the tools and we have the talent!

I like your surreptitious nature.  What are the best marshmallows for s'mores?

[iacas]

1 hour ago, djake said:

Also, I have been told, courses rarely make money with carts.  Mostly a break even situation thus putting even more financial stress on the bottom line.

I don't think that's true.

Heck, the old "head pro" model is that they owned the shop and the carts.

9 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

My case was not just opinion... I based it on proven marketing concepts and positive PR, between competing entities.

Your mistake may be that it's not just a matter of "marketing."

---

Also, you've talked about how what the course is doing "isn't right" and how they owe it to your friend or something in these times… but what about what you should do for the course, to help them through these times, if they aren't doing well these days?

[Double Mocha Man]

5 minutes ago, iacas said:

Your mistake may be that it's not just a matter of "marketing."

Also, you've talked about how what the course is doing "isn't right" and how they owe it to your friend or something in these times… but what about what you should do for the course, to help them through these times, if they aren't doing well these days?

It's a balance.  Between marketing, PR and numbers.  The beauty of being an entrepreneur is finding that sweet spot.  Which, of course, will change tomorrow.

If the now infamous course not to be named raised their greens fees by 50% I'd understand and be on board.  It's just the money-grabbing, snively way they are jacking up the cart prices for people who just want to protect their health that bothers me.  And I don't feel it's a sound business practice.

[pganapathy]

All the courses I play at in India have a flat rate for renting a cart.  Whether you want to rent the cart yourself or ride double is upto you.  I rarely use a cart, because I prefer walking, but when I do use the cart I am happy to ride double.  I don't understand the business model of charging per person 🤷‍♂️

[GolfLug]

6 minutes ago, pganapathy said:

 I don't understand the business model of charging per person 🤷‍♂️

I think what's being said that it's like buying your seat and the seat next to you on a plane so that you wouldn't have to rub elbows with anyone.

Edited July 24, 2020 by GolfLug

[iacas]

59 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

It's a balance.  Between marketing, PR and numbers.

And — here's the thing — you seem to be almost completely ignorant to the balance at that particular course.

There's a chance they're doing something dumb.

But there's a good chance, too, that you're the one in the wrong. You're an outsider. It's not your business. You don't know what their numbers are.

You've had numerous people all telling you why it might not be the travesty you keep making it out to be, yet you forge on, insinuating or flat out saying that you know better than the course itself. That they owe you something "in these trying times" or whatever.

59 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

If the now infamous course not to be named raised their greens fees by 50% I'd understand and be on board.

59 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

It's just the money-grabbing, snively way they are jacking up the cart prices for people who just want to protect their health that bothers me.  And I don't feel it's a sound business practice.

Oh brother.

What's "snively" about it? Many other courses are doing the same thing. The prices might differ slightly… but if a cart costs $18 at one place and $25 at another place, and one place charges $18 extra for a single cart and the other place charges $10… they're both about $35 for a single cart.

Many people have told you that the courses in their area are doing a similar thing, but you're so offended, so pissed, etc. that you're justifying your feelings by pretending you know more about the business, the "marketing/PR," etc. than you do.

You're making a lot of assumptions and not considering at all the things many others have said about what other courses are doing, the reasons this course may have for doing what they're doing, etc.

---

Courses can't just give away carts for free. They have families to feed, mortgages to pay, etc. They have a course to keep. They have no moral or fiscal obligation to give your friend a half-priced cart. None at all.

What if charging these extra fees right now is the small thing that keeps the course open for the future, and if they didn't, they'd go under and have to close? Is it "snively" then?

Because in truth you don't know. You're making a ton of assumptions that they're just taking advantage of a situation whereby people who "just want to protect their health" are being scammed. Those people have a choice to make. Your friend made a choice. He wasn't scammed. He wasn't ripped off. He was given a choice, and he made it.

[dsc123]

This is the policy at the University of Maryland Golf course, where I played last Saturday

Quote

• We will provide two carts per tee time. If you have concerns riding with another golfer we recommend bring a push cart or light bag and walking the course. Golf Bags can be loaded on a cart and walk along if you prefer.

I think this is pretty bad.  Particularly for a course owned by a public university. 

I walk almost all my rounds, but it was an afternoon event and the heat index was over 100.  In the pro shop, they said they'd try to accommodate, but ask that we double up if we're comfortable.  

They ended up having enough and everything was fine.  But I found it very off-putting that the course tried to encourage people to double-up as cases are soaring across the country. 

[Double Mocha Man]

13 minutes ago, iacas said:

And — here's the thing — you seem to be almost completely ignorant to the balance at that particular course.

There's a chance they're doing something dumb.

But there's a good chance, too, that you're the one in the wrong. You're an outsider. It's not your business. You don't know what their numbers are.

You've had numerous people all telling you why it might not be the travesty you keep making it out to be, yet you forge on, insinuating or flat out saying that you know better than the course itself. That they owe you something "in these trying times" or whatever.

Oh brother.

What's "snively" about it? Many other courses are doing the same thing. The prices might differ slightly… but if a cart costs $18 at one place and $25 at another place, and one place charges $18 extra for a single cart and the other place charges $10… they're both about $35 for a single cart.

Many people have told you that the courses in their area are doing a similar thing, but you're so offended, so pissed, etc. that you're justifying your feelings by pretending you know more about the business, the "marketing/PR," etc. than you do.

You're making a lot of assumptions and not considering at all the things many others have said about what other courses are doing, the reasons this course may have for doing what they're doing, etc.

---

Courses can't just give away carts for free. They have families to feed, mortgages to pay, etc. They have a course to keep. They have no moral or fiscal obligation to give your friend a half-priced cart. None at all.

What if charging these extra fees right now is the small thing that keeps the course open for the future, and if they didn't, they'd go under and have to close? Is it "snively" then?

Because in truth you don't know. You're making a ton of assumptions that they're just taking advantage of a situation whereby people who "just want to protect their health" are being scammed. Those people have a choice to make. Your friend made a choice. He wasn't scammed. He wasn't ripped off. He was given a choice, and he made it.

Courses can charge what they want to charge.  Only they have to suffer the fall-out, if there is fall-out.  Your assumption about me knowing nothing about the course in question, about me being an outsider is wrong.  A friend of mine works there. How do you think I got the information about the number of working carts they own?  Even he thinks the situation is unfair.  Though he gets free golf and free carts. 

And by my reading about half of the respondents to this thread are very happy their course is not charging extra for single carts.  Courses, where there's competition, need to be careful about where they come down on this topic.  Word gets around.  That's all I'm saying.

[djake]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I don't think that's true.

Heck, the old "head pro" model is that they owned the shop and the carts.

Your mistake may be that it's not just a matter of "marketing."

---

Also, you've talked about how what the course is doing "isn't right" and how they owe it to your friend or something in these times… but what about what you should do for the course, to help them through these times, if they aren't doing well these days?

I talked to 3 different courses this year regarding this exact topic.  All 3 answered identically.  They are getting their butts handed to them regarding carts.  

I realize this is a very small sample size and is not fair to extrapolate this into this situation.  It was all I had to go on though.

To be fair, give me real data.  Not what someone feels is real based on opinion.  Using terms like Marketing, PR, Time Proven off of a foursome is still nothing other then opinion based. 

The only way anyone knows what is behind a decision for cart rental is if you have the real financials. P&L, Balance Sheet and then the reasoning behind the decisions as well.

Until you have to be 100% responsible for the operation or know the info behind it all this is opinion based.

@Double Mocha Man do you have the financials for this golf course? If you stated those numbers previously please guide me to them.  Also you stated in a previous post we are all in this together.  Then maybe you should try and look at each golf course and their financial decisions as separate unique to that facility decisions.  To be in this together means you understand that one course can charge less for cart useage but another cannot. It has nothing to do with Marketing or PR.  It has to do with the bottom line in one of the most difficult if not most difficult time to own/run a business. 

So, as you stated, we are all in this together. And the only way you can be is by paying what they are asking. Not by complaining without real hard financial specific data.

Sorry for the long winded post.

[iacas]

14 minutes ago, dsc123 said:

They ended up having enough and everything was fine.  But I found it very off-putting that the course tried to encourage people to double-up as cases are soaring across the country. 

If you're sick, stay home. It's not your right to get to play golf in your own cart.

11 minutes ago, Double Mocha Man said:

Courses can charge what they want to charge.  Only they have to suffer the fall-out, if there is fall-out.  Your assumption about me knowing nothing about the course in question, about me being an outsider is wrong.  A friend of mine works there. How do you think I got the information about the number of working carts they own?  Even he thinks the situation is unfair.  Though he gets free golf and free carts.

Oh, a friend works there… I'm sure he's privy to all of the financials. C'mon man.

4 minutes ago, djake said:

To be fair, give me real data.  Not what someone feels is real based on opinion.  Using terms like Marketing, PR, Time Proven off of a foursome is still nothing other then opinion based. 

The only way anyone knows what is behind a decision for cart rental is if you have the real financials. P&L, Balance Sheet and then the reasoning behind the decisions as well.

Until you have to be 100% responsible for the operation or know the info behind it all this is opinion based.

You're not talking to me, right? Gonna assume not…

4 minutes ago, djake said:

@Double Mocha Man do you have the financials for this golf course?

Of course he doesn't.

[Double Mocha Man]

4 minutes ago, djake said:

I talked to 3 different courses this year regarding this exact topic.  All 3 answered identically.  They are getting their butts handed to them regarding carts.  

I realize this is a very small sample size and is not fair to extrapolate this into this situation.  It was all I had to go on though.

To be fair, give me real data.  Not what someone feels is real based on opinion.  Using terms like Marketing, PR, Time Proven off of a foursome is still nothing other then opinion based. 

The only way anyone knows what is behind a decision for cart rental is if you have the real financials. P&L, Balance Sheet and then the reasoning behind the decisions as well.

Until you have to be 100% responsible for the operation or know the info behind it all this is opinion based.

@Double Mocha Man do you have the financials for this golf course? If you stated those numbers previously please guide me to them.  Also you stated in a previous post we are all in this together.  Then maybe you should try and look at each golf course and their financial decisions as separate unique to that facility decisions.  To be in this together means you understand that one course can charge less for cart useage but another cannot. It has nothing to do with Marketing or PR.  It has to do with the bottom line in one of the most difficult if not most difficult time to own/run a business. 

So, as you stated, we are all in this together. And the only way you can be is by paying what they are asking. Not by complaining without real hard financial specific data.

Sorry for the long winded post.

Long winded forgiven.  All I am saying is that in a competitive market a course might want to be a bit lenient, and certainly market observant, on cart pricing given the sensitive nature of the situation. 

I also believe if a course seized the opportunity to inform the golfing public that they are not upcharging on single carts during the pandemic they would have a market advantage, and make up for loss of cart revenue by realizing increased greens fee revenue.

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

If you're sick, stay home. It's not your right to get to play golf in your own cart.

Oh, a friend works there… I'm sure he's privy to all of the financials. C'mon man.

You're not talking to me, right? Gonna assume not…

Of course he doesn't.

Never said I have the financials.  Nor did I ever say my friend who works there has the financials.  We don't.

Financials are not the be all and end all of running a good business that takes into account its customer's and potential customer's needs.