What Constitutes Slow Play?

[Sandy Lie]

So if you think about it, playing golf isn’t about the time on the course. Previous post made me think about total time involved. Pre-Golf preparation, starting with getting to the golf course, let’s say 20-30 minutes, checking in, pay the fee get some range balls. Another 10 minutes. Time at the range and putting, let’s say 20-25 minutes. You haven’t even tee’d off and you already have an hour invested.  So let’s just say your round is 3hrs, 45min. How many people have a beer with their friends? That’s probably 45min. How many hit the range post round to work on something?  Maybe 30mins there. And lastly the ride home, another 20-30minutes.  Yes all times will vary, but add up these times and you have just around 6 hours invested for the day. 

[ncates00]

2 minutes ago, Sandy Lie said:

So if you think about it, playing golf isn’t about the time on the course. Previous post made me think about total time involved. Pre-Golf preparation, starting with getting to the golf course, let’s say 20-30 minutes, checking in, pay the fee get some range balls. Another 10 minutes. Time at the range and putting, let’s say 20-25 minutes. You haven’t even tee’d off and you already have an hour invested.  So let’s just say your round is 3hrs, 45min. How many people have a beer with their friends? That’s probably 45min. How many hit the range post round to work on something?  Maybe 30mins there. And lastly the ride home, another 20-30minutes.  Yes all times will vary, but add up these times and you have just around 6 hours invested for the day. 

Valid points, but that’s not what this thread is about. We are talking precisely about time on the course—slow play. 

On 3/28/2021 at 12:56 PM, Frank F said:

I find it laughable that people actually think that a 4.25 hour round on a Saturday at the local Muni is such a big deal.

How is it laughable? I expect people to extend that etiquette by playing quickly. We all should respect one another’s time by playing quickly. People have stuff to do besides golf. That doesn’t mean one cannot enjoy the game and play quickly. We can do both. In fact, most would probably benefit from playing faster. Moreover, there are tons of little things one can do to get around the course quickly, e.g., ready golf, get distances while others are playing, take extra clubs with you when walking to your ball, help others by watching their tee shots, don’t wait on a par 5 when you know damn well you can’t hit it, read putts while others are playing, etc. 

 

On 3/28/2021 at 12:56 PM, Frank F said:

I spent 32 years in service to my country and behind a badge. I could spend 5 hours on a golf course and think that I was in Heaven in comparison to what I have witnessed and been through in my life.

Thanks, I guess.
 

This anecdote doesn’t support any of your assertions regarding slow play. Whether you have gone through things in life does not bear on the fact that most people need to play golf faster. 

[Sandy Lie]

So ncates00 I agree we are talking about on course time, but if people are concerned that they want/need to play 3hrs 45minutes in order to get home for errands and family time you really can’t ignore the pre and post time associated with playing.  It’s still time away.

[CarlSpackler]

59 minutes ago, Billy Z said:

Probably because 'slow play' is still part of the game of golf, some may say a cancerous part of golf.

Understood. I don’t understand why we need yet another slow play thread. Up to the mods though. 

[iacas]

14 minutes ago, Sandy Lie said:

So ncates00 I agree we are talking about on course time, but if people are concerned that they want/need to play 3hrs 45minutes in order to get home for errands and family time you really can’t ignore the pre and post time associated with playing.  It’s still time away.

It's not time away, because you've completely made up the numbers.

Here's my math:

• Time to drive to the course, get out, get a cart, load my clubs on: 5-7 minutes.
• Time to play, if I'm not held up and playing in a twosome where we try to play for a score: 2 hours.
• Time to drive home after unloading my bag from my cart: 5-7 minutes.
• Total time: 2 hours, 10-14 minutes.

Some people live on a golf course. Some people don't hit the range. Others hit the range for an hour before they play.

The only consistent thing we can talk about is time on the golf course, to play 18. And that's not even consistent because playing 18 at a private course first out on a Wednesday morning isn't the same as playing on a public course on a Saturday morning.

4 minutes ago, CarlSpackler said:

Understood. I don’t understand why we need yet another slow play thread. Up to the mods though. 

This isn't another topic. It's post #184 in an existing topic.

Or was it maybe merged? I'll assume that's what happened here.

[gjunkie57]

Slow play is shooting 100 on a muni. It’s just math.

[Billy Z]

2 minutes ago, gjunkie57 said:

Slow play is shooting 100 on a muni. It’s just math.

Lol, my friends shot this regularly and are quite the ready golfers.

[Big C]

This thread (and all the others like it before) prove that there is only one irrefutable answer to this question. 

Slow play is any pace that slows me (the golfer in question) down from my desired pace. 

The actual number is not relevant.

[Sandy Lie]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

It's not time away, because you've completely made up the numbers.

Here's my math:

• Time to drive to the course, get out, get a cart, load my clubs on: 5-7 minutes.
• Time to play, if I'm not held up and playing in a twosome where we try to play for a score: 2 hours.
• Time to drive home after unloading my bag from my cart: 5-7 minutes.
• Total time: 2 hours, 10-14 minutes.

Some people live on a golf course. Some people don't hit the range. Others hit the range for an hour before they play.

The only consistent thing we can talk about is time on the golf course, to play 18. And that's not even consistent because playing 18 at a private course first out on a Wednesday morning isn't the same as playing on a public course on a Saturday morning.

This isn't another topic. It's post #184 in an existing topic.

Or was it maybe merged? I'll assume that's what happened here.

Well enough about you let’s talk about me!  Good for you Icas but it’s different for everyone.  😀

[ncates00]

23 minutes ago, Big C said:

This thread (and all the others like it before) prove that there is only one irrefutable answer to this question. 

Slow play is any pace that slows me (the golfer in question) down from my desired pace. 

The actual number is not relevant.

I disagree. The pace need not be subjective to the person. Pace of play should be reasonable under the circumstances. A reasonable golfer would play at a brisk pace, in keeping up with the group in front of him or her. If every golfer does this, no one would have to wait on a another group, except for perhaps going for some par 5’s in two. 

[Sandy Lie]

2 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

I disagree. The pace need not be subjective to the person. Pace of play should be reasonable under the circumstances. A reasonable golfer would play at a brisk pace, in keeping up with the group in front of him or her. If every golfer does this, no one would have to wait on a another group, except for perhaps going for some par 5’s in two. 

So true.  I played with a new Member the other day who made a comment that he is “ a social golfer”.  He mentioned that on the 3rd hole.  The next 15 holes ere filled with blah,blah,blah.  Did it slow us down?  Oh yeah, stories upon stories. Easily added 30minutes to the round!  He never took the hint to shut up and keep up.  He’s on my No Golf with List!  

[Darkfrog]

8 minutes ago, ncates00 said:

The pace need not be subjective to the person.

Agree, but golf courses, at least the ones around me, don't help when they set the pace of play bar at 4 hr 15 min.

This thread reminded me that I have been meaning to read "Out of Time" by Bill Yates. I think there was a discussion on TST about this book last year.

[iacas]

52 minutes ago, Big C said:

This thread (and all the others like it before) prove that there is only one irrefutable answer to this question. 

Slow play is any pace that slows me (the golfer in question) down from my desired pace. 

The actual number is not relevant.

No, that's not true.

If I can play in a threesome in 2:30, I'm not going to complain if I play in 3:30 on a relatively busy course. I may if it's 4:30, depending on the course.

30 minutes ago, Sandy Lie said:

Well enough about you let’s talk about me!  Good for you Icas but it’s different for everyone.  😀

Ummmmmm…

[Big C]

2 minutes ago, iacas said:

No, that's not true.

If I can play in a threesome in 2:30, I'm not going to complain if I play in 3:30 on a relatively busy course. I may if it's 4:30, depending on the course.

Yeah, my comment was mostly tongue in cheek. I agree there is some nuance depending on the length and difficulty of the holes, the distance between tee boxes, and the complexity of the greens, but those nuances are rarely acknowledged in discussions like these.

[iacas]

2 minutes ago, Big C said:

Yeah, my comment was mostly tongue in cheek. I agree there is some nuance depending on the length and difficulty of the holes, the distance between tee boxes, and the complexity of the greens, but those nuances are rarely acknowledged in discussions like these.

Yes, everyone tends to have one picture in their mind, involving something near ideal conditions, etc.

And often better players or more involved golfers learn when the "good times" are, so they can't fathom having to play in a league where the pace is 2:30 nine-hole rounds, etc.

[TRUCKER]

USKIDS tournament Sat., and Sun. Both finished in 4 1/2 hrs. 140 players Sat. 170 players Sun. One kid in the group in front of us shot 127. I only saw 1 group get a red card. Looked like girls 11 or 12. 

Thought that was pretty good for that many kids.

[Darkfrog]

21 minutes ago, Big C said:

I agree there is some nuance depending on the length and difficulty of the holes, the distance between tee boxes, and the complexity of the greens, but those nuances are rarely acknowledged in discussions like these.

I've always wondered what elements outside of human behavior, contribute to slow play. My home course plays pretty slow for the most part. A few things I have considered at my course, but no idea if these are real contributors to slow play

• Holes #1 and #2 are probably the most difficult holes on the first 9, and holes #10, #11, and #12 are probably the most difficult on the back 9. This almost always results in waits at the 1st and 10th tees.
• The course has lost ball/OB/penalty area potential on almost every hole. Either boundary fences, the forest, or several creeks running through the property. This results in more ball searches/re-tees/drops than maybe a more open course.
• Three of the four par-3 holes are 180-210 yards from the middle tees, which results in quite a few players hitting a fairway woods and even driver on a par-3.
• Quite a few forced carries from the tee. My guess would be nothing more than 150 yards at most, but I see a lot of topped tee shots resulting in re-tees. There are drop zones for these holes, however there is nothing indicating to the players where the drop zone is on a particular hole, and sometimes the painted circle is so faded it's hard to find anyways.
• Course routing due to hilly and forested terrain - 10 of the holes have a bit of distance to cover between the green to the next tee. Plus it is hilly, so sometimes walking between holes takes a couple minutes.
• Small greens, so possibly causes more short game shots than a course with bigger greens.

[Frank F]

4 hours ago, ncates00 said:

How is it laughable? I expect people to extend that etiquette by playing quickly. We all should respect one another’s time by playing quickly. People have stuff to do besides golf. That doesn’t mean one cannot enjoy the game and play quickly. We can do both. In fact, most would probably benefit from playing faster. Moreover, there are tons of little things one can do to get around the course quickly, e.g., ready golf, get distances while others are playing, take extra clubs with you when walking to your ball, help others by watching their tee shots, don’t wait on a par 5 when you know damn well you can’t hit it, read putts while others are playing, etc. 

It's laughable because we're talking about a mere quarter of an hour that's why in my opinion. You mentioned some very good points to follow to speed up play. FWIW, I've been playing that way for 30+ years. For your information, etiquette goes both ways. Patience is quite the virtue, perhaps you should learn to exercise it on occaision.

4 hours ago, ncates00 said:

Thanks, I guess.
 

This anecdote doesn’t support any of your assertions regarding slow play. Whether you have gone through things in life does not bear on the fact that most people need to play golf faster. 

 

You're welcome "I guess". That was a nice cheap shot, noted. 

And I beg to differ with you. People need not learn to play golf faster necessarily. But, people should strive to play golf more efficiently.  Faster doesn't always equate to a quality round. Unless of course, you're one of those guys who rushes his round and then stands in the middle of the fairway with his "Bitch WIngs" on full display because he finally found the fairway and now wants to push the group in front of him because all of a sudden he's a better player.

I play regularly with a wounded Combat Vietnam Vet who can barely walk on some days. In my opinion, he's earned the right to play just a little bit slower than people like you might like. Maybe some day he can earn enough of the credit you are doling out to play to your satisfaction. SMH.

 

 

 

Edited March 30, 2021 by Frank F