National Anthems Before Sporting Events

[mcanadiens]

To anyone that has fought on the front lines, been injured in battle, had friends die and put themselves in danger, how can you deny them their due?

Playing the national anthem before a sporting event is ultimately a very small gesture. It is a gesture that as Americans we can make or choose not to make.

No law should ever compel us to make this gesture. We should want to.

[iacas]

4 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

 

To anyone that has fought on the front lines, been injured in battle, had friends die and put themselves in danger, how can you deny them their due?

 

The national anthem isn’t about the military.

As others have pointed out many times already.

[mcanadiens]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

The national anthem isn’t about the military.

As others have pointed out many times already.

Maybe take another look at the lyrics.

Oh, say! can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming;
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there:
Oh, say! does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

[iacas]

3 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Maybe take another look at the lyrics.

Oh, say! can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming;
Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there:
Oh, say! does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

I know the lyrics. It’s not a song about the military. It’s a national anthem. It’s as much about a McDonald’s worker as a military member.

[mcanadiens]

6 minutes ago, iacas said:

I know the lyrics. It’s not a song about the military. It’s a national anthem. It’s as much about a McDonald’s worker as a military member.

Common.

You have "perilous fight", "rockets red glare", "bombs bursting in air".

I really hope the average McDonald's worker doesn't have that rough a shift.

[iacas]

20 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Common.

You have "perilous fight", "rockets red glare", "bombs bursting in air".

I really hope the average McDonald's worker doesn't have that rough a shift.

It’s a national anthem. If you think it is only about or for the military then I don’t know what to tell you.

[measureoffsetinnm]

2 hours ago, David in FL said:

You would probably do better not telling me what I fought to protect…

I get that I have not served in the military and do not understand what it is like but that does not render me incapable of understanding what everyone says when they heap honor on those who have served.

 

2 hours ago, David in FL said:

If you don’t want to display patriotism, don’t. I’m OK with that. Hell, I pretty much expect it these days.  

Being disgusted by people displaying false patriotism is not patriotism to you?

[Shorty]

3 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

Common.

You have "perilous fight", "rockets red glare", "bombs bursting in air".

I really hope the average McDonald's worker doesn't have that rough a shift.

So---when an Olympic gold medalist has the anthem played in their honour it's about the military, is it? That's who's being honoured? You can't be serious.

My God... has your country fallen even to the point now where people are claiming that when the national anthem is played at a sporting event it is a salute to the military? It has NOTHING to do with the military in that context. It has to do with everyone being proud of their nation. Something which millions of very sane people now struggle to do. 

When it is played at school assemblies is it for staff and students to contemplate those in service? No other reason?

An anthem whose inspiration was a proud moment in military history does not mean that the anthem relates to the military only. It is for all people from the U.S.A.

No wonder the term "thank you for your service" has become an embarrassing meme.

And to push that one step further, if I were from the U.S.A. I would very much dislike being called a "patriot" at the moment. 

It is not exactly a term implying praise in some parts of the country.

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Shorty

[imsys0042]

5 hours ago, Shorty said:

My God... has your country fallen even to the point now where people are claiming that when the national anthem is played at a sporting event it is a salute to the military? It has NOTHING to do with the military in that context. It has to do with everyone being proud of their nation. Something which millions of very sane people now struggle to do. 

An anthem whose inspiration was a proud moment in military history does not mean that the anthem relates to the military only. It is for all people from the U.S.A.

No wonder the term "thank you for your service" has become an embarrassing meme.

And to push that one step further, if I were from the U.S.A. I would very much dislike being called a "patriot" at the moment. 

It is not exactly a term implying praise in some parts of the country.

 

I think a vocal minority of people have fallen to that point.   Without getting into the what’s and whys, there is a very vocal type of person who thinks the country is changing or not going they want.  The claim is that the people they perceive as the change are not true patriots, or that they hate this country.   That leads to exaggerated patriotism.  
 

people should have pride in where they live and want to play the anthem, wave the flag.  Etc.   personally I think it gets tied to the military because we have several holidays that celebrate people who have served, or who died in service to this country.  Like anything, you can take it too far.   When patriotism becomes a slam on people you don’t like, you’ve gone too far.

I hope people in any country have the kind of life where you want to take a minute and appreciate you live in a great country and have these choices.  Lot of people don’t.  Should it be required?   No.  Should people be happy for the life they have and the country that gave it to them?  Yup.

[mcanadiens]

15 hours ago, Shorty said:

An anthem whose inspiration was a proud moment in military history does not mean that the anthem relates to the military only. It is for all people from the U.S.A.

 

I never used the word "only". People relate to it however they want to in a given moment. Like your gold-medal winner.

But you are daft if you think a member of the military wouldn't feel something extra amount a song that clearly has military themes and has been traditionally played at sporting events for decades. 

You talk about extreme patriotism and it being something you'd consider an insult. But we aren't talking about some sort of extra display of patriotism. This is something we've done in this country since my dad was a child.

[boogielicious]

20 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

I never used the word "only". People relate to it however they want to in a given moment. Like your gold-medal winner.

But you are daft if you think a member of the military wouldn't feel something extra amount a song that clearly has military themes and has been traditionally played at sporting events for decades. 

You talk about extreme patriotism and it being something you'd consider an insult. But we aren't talking about some sort of extra display of patriotism. This is something we've done in this country since my dad was a child.

I have quite a few military friends, some of which retired from the Navy. My late father and FIL were in the service during the Korea War and WWII. Heck, I was a Boy Scout and Sea Explorer with the Coast Guard until I was 17. And frankly, they all feel like I do. When the anthem is played all the time, I loses what is special about it. It wasn’t always played at every sporting event either. Players weren’t always out for the anthem until recently. I want the anthem to be special again.
 

How Sports Met 'The Star-Spangled Banner'

---

"The Star-Spangled Banner" has been played at major sporting events as far back as the Civil War, even before it was officially named the national anthem. How and why did the tradition stick?

 

[Shorty]

34 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

I never used the word "only". People relate to it however they want to in a given moment. Like your gold-medal winner.

But you are daft if you think a member of the military wouldn't feel something extra amount a song that clearly has military themes and has been traditionally played at sporting events for decades. 

You talk about extreme patriotism and it being something you'd consider an insult. But we aren't talking about some sort of extra display of patriotism. This is something we've done in this country since my dad was a child.

The word patriotism has been debased and co-opted by the lunatic "fringe" which represents tens of millions of people in the U.S.A. 

In the United Kingdom, the Union Jack has become a symbol (to many) of the far right. Imagine saying, thirty years ago, in the UK that if you drove past a house with the windows plastered with 20 Union Jacks of all sizes you are very likely passing the home of a white nationalist. But it's true.

In Australia the Eureka flag has been adopted by far right groups and is referred to as the "Aussie Swazi". 

It has come to the point where in many environments seeing something like a flag tattooed on the chest indicates the absolute opposite of what it may have represented not too many years ago.

I would shudder at the idea that at any school in the U.S.A. when they teach children the national anthem they say that it is designed to make them think about the military. On certain occasions, yes, of course it is appropriate to consider those who sacrificed their lives, but there seems to be an emerging idea that it is played at sporting events solely to acknowledge the military. That is silly. And wrong.

People who really are patriots need to speak out more and express their disgust at racist, uneducated neanderthals with political (populist) ambitions who proudly call themselves "patriots" when what they are saying is "I am an unashamed xenophopic racist". True patriots must reclaim the word.

Edited May 31, 2021 by Shorty

[boogielicious]

6 minutes ago, Shorty said:

The word patriotism has been debased and co-opted by the lunatic "fringe" which represents tens of millions of people in the U.S.A. 

In the United Kingdom, the Union Jack has become a symbol (to many) of the far right. Imagine saying, thirty years ago, in the UK that if you drove past a house with the windows plastered with 20 Union Jacks of all sizes you are very likely passing the home of a white nationalist. But it's true.

In Australia the Eureka flag has been adopted by far right groups and is referred to as the "Aussie Swazi". 

It has come to the point where in many environments seeing something like a flag tattooed on the chest indicates the absolute opposite of what it may have represented not too many years ago.

I would shudder at the idea that at any school in the U.S.A. when they teach children the national anthem they say that it is designed to make them think about the military. On certain occasions, yes, of course it is appropriate to consider those who sacrificed their lives, but there seems to be an emerging idea that it is played at sporting events solely to acknowledge the military. That is silly. And wrong.

People who really are patriots need to speak out more and express their disgust at racist, uneducated neanderthals with political (populist) ambitions who proudly call themselves "patriots" when what they are saying is "I am an unashamed xenophopic racist". True patriots must reclaim the word.

Let’s not stray into politics please.

[Phil McGleno]

@mcanadiens nobody is saying the national anthem is not ABOUT the military or a war or battle-Duh of course it is.

What people are saying is that it is not FOR the military.-It is for everyone because it is the NATIONAL anthem.-It is not the military anthem.-And if you associate patriotism with war or the military then I feel sad for you.

Patriotism is often called upon in times of war-But also in times of tragedy, or success.-I remember feeling great pride in putting a man on the moon.-I feel patriotic pride when the anthem plays as an athlete wins a gold medal.-Etc.

You are thinking like a simpleton to say it is about the military.-The song itself is but the "national anthem" is not.-BTW I think the poem lyrics were set to an old UK tune.

And @David in FL, I served in the military.-I know the true cost some have paid.-And you sir are a butthead.-Go get your vaccine. Your commander in chief said you should-And you should know how to follow an order.

I will say again-The national anthem is not about the military.

[David in FL]

33 minutes ago, Phil McGleno said:

 

And @David in FL, I served in the military.-I know the true cost some have paid.-And you sir are a butthead.-Go get your vaccine. Your commander in chief said you should-And you should know how to follow an order.

 

Moderators please.

 

[Shorty]

1 hour ago, David in FL said:

Moderators please.

 

You got yourself into this. Your BS posturing offends people to the point where they don't beat around the bush with you because you're passive aggressive and ill-informed. Just because you can't logically argue your way out of it doesn't mean you shouldn't try. 

People are willing to engage in debate when you present a viewpoint that can be defended. But you can't do it so you call in the umpires? Nice. 

[iacas]

7 hours ago, David in FL said:

Moderators please.

How many warning points would you like to receive, David?

[mcanadiens]

13 hours ago, boogielicious said:

It wasn’t always played at every sporting event either.

Right, but as the page you linked relates, it has been decades. After World War II, it became very common.

8 hours ago, Phil McGleno said:

What people are saying is that it is not FOR the military.-It is for everyone because it is the NATIONAL anthem.-It is not the military anthem.-And if you associate patriotism with war or the military then I feel sad for you.

I get it. Like I said above, people relate to it how they will and in the context of whatever the moment is. When the song itself gets elevated into a national anthem it represents the country as a whole. None of that changes the fact that it is a song about defense of Fort McHenry in the War of 1812, but I don't spend particular time thinking about Fort McHenry every time I hear it. 

13 hours ago, Shorty said:

People who really are patriots need to speak out more and express their disgust at racist, uneducated neanderthals with political (populist) ambitions who proudly call themselves "patriots" when what they are saying is "I am an unashamed xenophopic racist". True patriots must reclaim the word.

Racists do tend to co-opt symbols, but I think it is a big stretch to say that things like the flag and the national anthem have become racist symbols. 

Ironically, the concept of the anthem being a problem was something I never heard of before the NFL players began kneeling for it. Then it all really blew up.