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Kept Stats for a Round and Found Out I Am Apparently a Horrible Putter. Seeking Advice.


ZANDER1994
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(edited)
37 minutes ago, reidsou said:

IMO, if you hit 11 GIR's you should shoot 73.

you should work on putting and chipping - at least half of total practice time.  

I would love to see how you come to that conclusion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you suggesting that if you miss a green you should get up and down 7 times out of 8 no matter where you have put the ball? Presumably, he's not a foot off the green on each of the ones he misses GIR.

As for the 50% time practicing putting and chipping, please refrain from giving "advice" that will cause someone's game to regress.

You are way off the mark.

Edited by Shorty
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45 minutes ago, reidsou said:

IMO, if you hit 11 GIR's you should shoot 73.

Right, tell that to my short game, which is slightly better than adequate.

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39 minutes ago, reidsou said:

IMO, if you hit 11 GIR's

That's pretty damn good round for a 15 hdcp'er ...
Granted, the round was played on a short course (Wht - Tees)
But pending greens/slope/difficulty, that's still a stretch to score 73

And as @Shorty mentioned, does the "MyRoundPro" App stats indicate 
this is the norm?
It's a better probability for a low hdcp'er to score that well on an occasion. 

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1 hour ago, reidsou said:

IMO, if you hit 11 GIR's you should shoot 73. I agree that you should work on putting and chipping - at least half of total practice time.  

and, quoting the above:

35 minutes ago, Shorty said:

I would love to see how you come to that conclusion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Are you suggesting that if you miss a green you should get up and down 7 times out of 8 no matter where you have put the ball? Presumably, he's not a foot off the green on each of the ones he misses GIR.

As for the 50% time practicing putting and chipping, please refrain from giving "advice" that will cause someone's game to regress.

You are way off the mark.

The line of best fit for the data of GIR vs score is 95 - 2 * GIR.  That's probably where @reidsou's number came from.   Note that, even if we treat it as the standard goal (I agree with you, as you'll see in a moment), an average 11-GIR round probably has one or two birdies thrown in, and I'd bet that most of those missed greens in such a round (again, for an average 11-GIR round) are probably very much near-GIR. 

That having been said, there are some of us, such as the original poster on this thread and I, whose long game is such that more than seven GIR isn't unheard of (which that formula would "predict," if we use it to predict at least, a round in the 70s) but who still score in the 80s.  I even recently had a round with 9 GIR and a score of 90 -- which is why 95 - 2 *GIR isn't meant to predict any individual's score, but does still highlight the importance of GIR and ball striking.

Which brings me to my next point, which is also @Shorty's next point:  yeah, 50% chipping and putting is not the way to go, certainly not long term.  Maybe with the goal of getting those traits to about an average 20-handicapper's level (without sacrificing approach shot strength), and then using the 15/20 time productively in future weeks to improve on them.  The nice thing about chipping and putting is that there is some low hanging fruit as far as getting competent goes, especially if one is building off the sort of short game shots that come from missing fewer than half of one's GIRs.

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(edited)

@Shindig  - I totally agree with you. If someone is having 40 putts per round and chunks and skulls chips half the time, they need to solve those problems. But 50% of time NEGLECTING driving and iron play is no way to improve your golf long term. Just spend time working on those elements.

The fact that a lot of high handicappers waste shots around the green does not mean that everyone has to "work on their  short game" half the time.

And, as you said, 11 GIR is an indicator of 11 GIR, not much else a lot of the time. Throw in a couple of OBs, and balls in penalty areas and trees and you can expect a score anywhere between mid 70s and probably mid to high 80s, depending on the course. Not to mention are those GIRs really GIRs  - is it just 5 and 6 that were "close enough"?

To say that 11 GIRs SHOULD  result in 73 is complete nonsense.

My brother once had  a round of 75 with no one putts.  He rarely breaks 80. One stat does not imply a score, no matter how you interpret it.

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On 7/23/2021 at 9:09 PM, onthehunt526 said:

Take the putter back slower.

Faster probably.

31 minutes ago, Shorty said:

To say that 11 GIRs SHOULD  result in 73 is complete nonsense.

No it isn’t.

50% of your time is a bad idea but I will get 9 GIR and shoot 70. 11 and 73 is pretty common.

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1 minute ago, iacas said:

I will get 9 GIR and shoot 70. 11 and 73 is pretty common.

I would expect a high quality player to be around the green in regulation and get up and down a lot. I would qualify my statement by saying that someone playing off a low handicap, scratchish, like yourself,  would most probably typically be shooting low to mid 70s most of the time with more than 50% GIR. That is not remarkable for high calibre players. But for someone to shoot 90 and have 11 GIRs, the rest of their game is clearly not there for 73. So, @reidsouis incorrrect in saying that 73 "should" be the score.

Regarding the game of the person in question, I am not assuming that there is a quality short game in operation - there is clearly horrendous putting going on. :-)

 

 

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36 minutes ago, Shorty said:

I would expect a high quality player to be around the green in regulation and get up and down a lot. I would qualify my statement by saying that someone playing off a low handicap, scratchish, like yourself,  would most probably typically be shooting low to mid 70s most of the time with more than 50% GIR. That is not remarkable for high calibre players. But for someone to shoot 90 and have 11 GIRs, the rest of their game is clearly not there for 73. So, @reidsouis incorrrect in saying that 73 "should" be the score.

Discussed previously on TST: 

 

It's a useful formula because it can quickly point out relative strength/weakness. A short game corresponding to the skill level required to hit 11 GIRs "should" score 73. Higher indicates a relatively poor short game. Lower is the opposite. 

(I personally average around 6-7 GIR and typically shoot 78. Shot 77 in a recent tournament with 4 GIRs. Need to work on my long game!) 

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20 minutes ago, reidsou said:

 

 

It's a useful formula because it can quickly point out relative strength/weakness. A short game corresponding to the skill level required to hit 11 GIRs "should" score 73. Higher indicates a relatively poor short game. Lower is the opposite. 

 

I get that - but a week a go the guy is 3 putting literally  half the time and 3 putting everything over 15 feet. I think the relative weakness is self evident. When he sorts out his putting he'll likely shoot in the 70s, but at the moment I don't think he should be shooting 73. That's all I'm saying.

I understand that you're saying that if you can do X, you should be able to do Y. That's fair enough. But right now, Y, is holding him back big time. He needs to work on that aspect, not be expecting to play close to par. That may come.  Hopefully it will!

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10 minutes ago, Shorty said:

I get that - but a week a go the guy is 3 putting literally  half the time and 3 putting everything over 15 feet.

You're still missing his point. So just stop.

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4 hours ago, Club Rat said:

And as @Shorty mentioned, does the "MyRoundPro" App stats indicate 

this is the norm?
It's a better probability for a low hdcp'er to score that well on an occasion. 

Encourage you to download the app and try it. It is free. 

Very unlikely for a 15 hdcp to hit 11 greens. If this is accurate it shows the long game of a much better player. 

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18 minutes ago, iacas said:

You're still missing his point. So just stop.

Am I wrong to say that a person who hits 11 GIR should be a better putter than the OP is? I am pretty sure that that is his point, no? 

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1 minute ago, Shorty said:

Am I wrong to say that a person who hits 11 GIR should be a better putter than the OP is? I am pretty sure that that is his point, no? 

He's clearly saying that if you hit 11 GIR and shoot 90, you should work on your putting as that is the weak part of your game.

A person who hits 11 GIR "should" shoot about 73, so if you're hitting 11 GIR, and you shoot 90, it's likely not your full swing (or "long game") that needs work.

So again, just stop. You're missing the point.

For a short time, the player should probably focus on his putting. Not 50% in the long-term, but in the short term, sure.

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13 hours ago, ZANDER1994 said:

I would say it’s about 50/50 in terms of too long or too short. Usually I’m pretty on line - it’s mainly distance control. Downhill putts are especially hard for me to judge. 
 

I am staring at my putter more wondering if maybe it is time for a change. I have had the same box set Maxfli putter for almost 20 years. The grip is all worn down and you can see where I strike it on the face. I’ve never tried another putter so maybe I should try something that gives me better feedback.

 

 

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If you do get a new putter, get fit first. Try a bunch out at a golf store and see what kinds you like first. Then find a good fitter to get your numbers down, length, lie, loft and overall weight. Heavier putters can help with distance control for some folks. Also, a different grip size may help even if n your current putter.

For distance control, having a consistent rhythm helps. In my visit to Erie, Erik had me work on increasing my rhythm a bit because I was a bit too slow and it varied. I have a tempo app on my phone and set my rhythm to 2/4 time at 72 bpm. When I practice putting, I first work on my rhythm for short, medium and long putts. Then I work on read and start line.

This drill can help too.

 

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16 hours ago, ZANDER1994 said:

I am staring at my putter more wondering if maybe it is time for a change. I have had the same box set Maxfli putter for almost 20 years. The grip is all worn down and you can see where I strike it on the face. I’ve never tried another putter so maybe I should try something that gives me better feedback.

Replace the grip if you want, but a new putter won't matter (unless it makes you practice more). 

There's some great putting and short game drills in chapter 9 of Every Shot Counts by Mark Broadie. His drills are also games, with scoring that measures objective skill level.  

Also recommend The Putting Bible by Dave Pelz. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 7/23/2021 at 12:19 AM, Missouri Swede said:

I'm a higher handicap than you are, but my Arccos app tells me that I 3-putt about 3 holes per round.  I lose more Strokes Gained in driving and approach than putting, so I don't practice putting that often.

I am in the same situation,  per Arccos I am like a 5 hcp player (sometimes even better) in Putting despite my high overall hcp; I am a good putter, but I still feel Arccos is quite generous on that...

To me, what really made me gain strokes, once I fixed pulls/pushes, is the distance control: practicing the stroke while looking at your target and don't make last second changes when you step in to the ball

 

 

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