Are Green Speeds Too Fast?

[darthweasel]

13 hours ago, iacas said:

 Why?

• They're smoother, so the ball rolls more true. They're not deflected offline as much.
• The strokes required are smaller, and thus less error prone (start direction, etc.).

P

this was exactly what I was wondering, great answer, thanks. I wasn't sure if it was one of those things that enters the zeitgeist and is wrong (drive for show, putt for dough anyone?) or if something with an actual reason. Now I get it and am a tiny bit smarter. Appreciate it

[Pretzel]

The fastest greens I've ever played in my life had a legitimate stimp rating of 12.5, and I've only encountered greens that actually stimped 12 or higher about three times in my life. I've played lots of courses and tournaments where the head pro claimed that the greens were a 12 though.

It's a point of pride for many golf courses to claim their greens are faster than they really are, because it makes their course sound better or fancier in some way. Very few golf courses actually know the true stimp rating of their greens other than somebody's wild guess or an incorrectly measured value because somebody wasn't properly trained. Like @iacas said, most golfers would consider greens rolling at a 10 to be fast. My favorite course, in part because of the quality of their greens, targets a daily green speed of 10.5 (measured after each cutting with a stimp meter, and on multiple greens across the course) and are the fastest greens around by a decent margin. Anything at an 11 or above is faster than 95% of golfers have ever putted on and would be described as "like linoleum" by most. 12 and above you start to have difficulty replacing your ball at its mark unless you're on the flattest portion of the green, which is an exceedingly rare experience.

Yes though, faster greens are "easier" in that you'll make more putts because for a green to roll that fast it has to also roll true - bumps and other irregularities in the putting surface will slow it down quickly. They're definitely intimidating at first to most golfers, but with some extra time spent adjusting most golfers will putt just fine or better than usual on them because of that (and the smaller swing = smaller errors).

Edited August 18, 2021 by Pretzel

[imsys0042]

8 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

Anything at an 11 or above is faster than 95% of golfers have ever putted on and would be described as "like linoleum" by most. 12 and above you start to have difficulty replacing your ball at its mark unless you're on the flattest portion of the green, which is an exceedingly rare experience.

 

I played at the Pittsburgh Field Club in mid-September one year and they had greens like that.   Beautiful place.

 

[caniac6]

I played Sedgefield this past spring, and the greens were very firm and smooth. They were probably the best greens I've ever played on. I don't know what speed they were, but they played very fast. If you were above the hole, it was very tough to putt it close. The greens had a lot of undulation, and some of the areas around the greens presented some very difficult chips. I know it's not a long course by today's standards, but the greens really made me appreciate how good the pros are.

[DrvFrShow]

I spend enough time before my round lag putting to make sure I know how the greens are rolling. If I don't do that the first few holes are disasters. I don't mind faster greens. The ball tends to roll true. The lines are easier to read. I really hate slow greens. I find slow greens more difficult to play because you have to also be careful about overcoming the tipping point where you can hit the ball too hard because you got frustrated with the ball stopping way short all the time.

[Shindig]

6 hours ago, StuM said:

I will not claim to be a "Good Player" but my putting this year is much better then in prior years.  I credit part of that improvement to my change in pre-round warm-up.  I do not try to hole out my practice putts, I want to miss the hole and see how far past it the ball rolls.  Ideally 6-12" past which would give the ball a good chance to drop in the hole if on line.   If I go several feet past then even if on-line there is a chance the ball would not drop, and of course 100% of short putts never go in.  I pay close attention to how far my take-away is on up-hill, down-hill and side-hill putts from various distances to get a good idea.  Once on the course I worry about the line.

[Note:  I am not a great putter]

You might do better trying to hit specific distances instead of consciously missing putts.  For example, put a tee in the putting surface, step off 12', 21', 30' before the round (I don't bother with 21' when I'm practicing, but I do when warming up before the round;  I chose these numbers because they're roughly four, seven, and ten steps) and try to hit exactly that far.  

When I'm practicing (as opposed to warming up), I set up 30' (or 36, or 39) away and try to two-putt, hitting the first one as close to the right distance.  For putts inside 15', I aim to either hole it or hit it past the hole while being able to make the one coming back -- there's a great drill in ESC for the latter.

[StuM]

1 hour ago, Shindig said:

[Note:  I am not a great putter]

You might do better trying to hit specific distances instead of consciously missing putts.  For example, put a tee in the putting surface, step off 12', 21', 30' before the round (I don't bother with 21' when I'm practicing, but I do when warming up before the round;  I chose these numbers because they're roughly four, seven, and ten steps) and try to hit exactly that far.  

When I'm practicing (as opposed to warming up), I set up 30' (or 36, or 39) away and try to two-putt, hitting the first one as close to the right distance.  For putts inside 15', I aim to either hole it or hit it past the hole while being able to make the one coming back -- there's a great drill in ESC for the latter.

I have done that but at my league there are too many on the practice green to be placing tees in different locations.

[WillieT]

On 8/17/2021 at 7:31 PM, iacas said:

People putt better on faster greens. It’s been measured and studied.

Interesting thread.  One course I play, they are working to "regrow" the greens that were damaged from salt infiltration when the course flooded from a hurricane in 2018.  Four holes were bent grass the balance Bermuda.  The bent grass greens they are letting die and having the Bermuda migrate in.  It makes for interesting putting as the none of the greens are consistent.  Of the 14 that are not bent grass, about 10 are decently puttable - albeit always slow.  Leaves you guessing on how hard you need to hit the ball.  Switch gears - have played a course a couple of times lately that has some of the smoothest, easiest playing greens around.  I definitely putt better on those greens.  All that to say, I agree with @iacas, that faster greens are easier to putt.