Ruling on a Ball Lying in a Divot With Attached Grass "Flap"

[KMP]

I hit a blind shot out of a fairway bunker today that ended up shorter than expected and in a divot. The divot had the grass attached and was not replaced, but sticking up skyward. My ball rolled into the divot and the attached grass flopped down over my ball. I could not find a definitive ruling but assume I was out of luck since this was not a loose impediment. Can anyone confirm or provide an opinion?

[Rulesman]

The attached 'flap' is not a loose impediment and moving it would improve your lie, so 'play it as it lies' or take an unplayable. 

Incidentally. you were in a 'divot hole'. The divot is the piece of turf that is displaced 😉

[ChetlovesMer]

4 hours ago, KMP said:

I hit a blind shot out of a fairway bunker today that ended up shorter than expected and in a divot. The divot had the grass attached and was not replaced, but sticking up skyward. My ball rolled into the divot and the attached grass flopped down over my ball. I could not find a definitive ruling but assume I was out of luck since this was not a loose impediment. Can anyone confirm or provide an opinion?

I'll provide an opinion... My opinion, that's a bummer. 

[TourSpoon]

Divots are part of the deal, rub of the green, and they happen. 

I wish you would have taken a picture of this as I am not sure what to think. Your ball rolled into divot hole and the grass (divot) was covering your ball or partially covering your ball? I have seen balls that are up against the turf, but never under it. 

Since you said the ball "rolled" into this predicament you are in play. It would be different if your ball was embedded. Maybe @Rulesman can elaborate if so inclined. 

[iacas]

7 hours ago, TourSpoon said:

Divots are part of the deal, rub of the green, and they happen. 

I wish you would have taken a picture of this as I am not sure what to think. Your ball rolled into divot hole and the grass (divot) was covering your ball or partially covering your ball? I have seen balls that are up against the turf, but never under it. 

Since you said the ball "rolled" into this predicament you are in play. It would be different if your ball was embedded. Maybe @Rulesman can elaborate if so inclined. 

The flap (the divot) wasn't fully detached from the divot hole, and his ball was in the divot hole with the flap over it.

It's not embedded.

[TourSpoon]

13 hours ago, iacas said:

The flap (the divot) wasn't fully detached from the divot hole, and his ball was in the divot hole with the flap over it.

It's not embedded.

That is why I said: 

21 hours ago, TourSpoon said:

Since you said the ball "rolled" into this predicament you are in play. It would be different if your ball was embedded.

To clarify further, I have never seen a ball "roll" into a hole (as described by OP) and it ever being remotely confused with being embedded. To me that description ends the story with no relief unless declared unplayable. Plus the grass is attached so its not a loose impediment either. It is just really bad luck. 

But, if the ball landed with such force that it plugged into the divot hole (or even a sand filled divot), that would be a different story. Right? 

 

[iacas]

6 minutes ago, TourSpoon said:

That is why I said:

I know. But you also said "I'm not sure what to think." It's a pretty straightforward situation. And nobody had used the word "embed" until you did.

Balls can roll into holes all the time. Especially when putted. 😉

So, question answered, and we're all set?

9 minutes ago, TourSpoon said:

But, if the ball landed with such force that it plugged into the divot hole (or even a sand filled divot), that would be a different story. Right? 

Check out 16.3. It could depend if he's in the fairway or not.

[TourSpoon]

35 minutes ago, iacas said:

And nobody had used the word "embed" until you did.

I did. I would think that this would be a common mistake for less sophisticated golfers. It doesn't apply and my bringing it up as a non-example just extended this thread. 🤣

37 minutes ago, iacas said:

Balls can roll into holes all the time. Especially when putted. 😉

One can only hope so! 🤑

[KMP]

Thanks all.... the ball was indeed not imbedded.  The shot shape left me to conclude the ball rolled into the divot hole and further conclude the attached divot dropped down to cover the top and front of the ball. I did find the next shot to be much more difficult than the standard unrepaired divot hole with the divot several yards away. Seemed like a simple press down with the Sqairz could have prevented the situation.

[DrvFrShow]

On 3/5/2022 at 10:10 PM, KMP said:

I hit a blind shot out of a fairway bunker today that ended up shorter than expected and in a divot. The divot had the grass attached and was not replaced, but sticking up skyward. My ball rolled into the divot and the attached grass flopped down over my ball. I could not find a definitive ruling but assume I was out of luck since this was not a loose impediment. Can anyone confirm or provide an opinion?

Your location says University Place, WA. If you are playing in the State of Washington, and the ball was in the fairway, mark your ball. Lift your ball out of the spot. Clean your ball. Replace it in an area within a 1' radius of your mark no nearer the hole. It's March here in Washington. Preferred lies are in effect. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by DrvFrShow

[DaveP043]

16 hours ago, DrvFrShow said:

It's March here in Washington. Preferred lies are in effect. 

Usually preferred lies are instituted via local rule by a single course's Committee (often its management).  Has Washington Golf put this into effect for the entire state?  Or are you suggesting this because you're outside of the handicap posting season in WA?

[DrvFrShow]

We're in handicap posting. The courses I play post a sign "Summer Rules Are In Effect" on a certain day, and they remove it on a certain day at the end of September. Outside of those days it's preferred lies and only on the fairway. The courses are soggy and the grasses are still dormant due to cold temperatures.

[Double Mocha Man]

10 hours ago, DaveP043 said:

Or are you suggesting this because you're outside of the handicap posting season in WA?

Handicap posting began March 1st.

[KMP]

On 3/12/2022 at 6:08 AM, DaveP043 said:

Usually preferred lies are instituted via local rule by a single course's Committee (often its management).  Has Washington Golf put this into effect for the entire state?  Or are you suggesting this because you're outside of the handicap posting season in WA?

We are (were) in the posting season. This is one reason for the question, although I thought I was just out of luck.

On 3/12/2022 at 4:18 PM, DrvFrShow said:

We're in handicap posting. The courses I play post a sign "Summer Rules Are In Effect" on a certain day, and they remove it on a certain day at the end of September. Outside of those days it's preferred lies and only on the fairway. The courses are soggy and the grasses are still dormant due to cold temperatures.

Grass is most definitely not dormant in U.P. now or for the last few weeks. Also, courses I play do not necessarily have winter rules posted, nor do I normally play winter rules in any event. I was more concerned about the general rule and the quirks of golf. Thank you all for your comments!!! 

Edited March 14, 2022 by KMP