Your Opinion/Advice on Banning Green Reading Material at Low Level Amateur Tournaments

[bkuehn1952]

We run a series of handicapped one day tournaments.  108 senior guys, handicaps from 0-36, ages 50-95, shotgun start.  We are constantly battling pace of play issues.

A member asked about whether we would allow phone apps that provide green reading "maps".  We immediately thought about some 36-handicapper stalking the green, cell phone in hand, not a pretty picture. Under the "monkey see, monkey do" process, if a couple of guys start using green reading material, whether paper or a phone app, the practice might spread.  I do not recall ever seeing a member with green reading material, so I don't think we have a pace of play problem because of green reading material (YET!).

Some board members want to prohibit green reading materials in any form so as to prevent the practice from taking hold.  I am of a mind to do nothing right now.  We would continue to monitor pace of play and identify members who are too deliberate, whether they use green reading material or not.  The Rules of Golf allow green reading material within certain parameters.  I don't want us to stray too far from the Rules or prevent someone capable of using the material efficiently from using permitted information.

Relying on slow play penalties is not really a solution for our group.  It is difficult to identify the one player in a foursome who is always slow. Penalizing the entire group won't fly.  Also, we don't have the manpower to monitor the entire course. We have resorted to splitting up known laggards, obtain handicap flags for really slow walkers, place slow players with faster groups, etc. When a member fails to hit a provisional, we use the local rule that allows moving laterally to the fairway with a 2-stroke penalty (E-5). We use a 9 stroke (gross) maximum.  If 50% of our members start using green reading material, we will need to issue flashlights to everyone.

Anyone else dealt with the issue of green reading material and pace of play? Any advice?

 

[NM Golf]

The only green reading apps I've seen on the iPhone actually use the phone's camera to scan the green and tell the player the line. Obviously, any app that does that would be illegal to begin with and you would not need to make a ruling one way or another.

As far as a green reading book or app on a phone that provides a map, I wouldn't make them illegal because they cause slow play, I would deal with the slow play. There are ways you can monitor slow play. I have run several golf associations over the years including the now defunct Golf Channel Am Tour. The best rule you can put into play is the 4:30 minute round rule.

1. Groups must have their card turned in to the scorer within 4:45 of teeing off (4:30 plus 15 minutes to get in) or within 15 minutes of the group in front of them (in the case they are following a penalized group).

2. Groups that don't each player receives a 2 stroke penalty. It's as easy as that.

FWIW..You can certainly penalize the group for slow play as most of the time it's not just 1 person, and it's everyone's responsibility as a group to get back into position if they fall behind. It's too easy to say, "I played with Bob today and he's slow so we took 5:30 to play." Well, get on Bob's ass and move him along. I've had to do it numerous times, sometimes people don't even realize they're slow until you tell them. 

Anyway, you'd be surprised how well that rule works. And depending on the course you can set different parameters, as some courses should not need 4:30 to play. Either way, deal with the specific problem don't beat around the bush and try to combat slow play indirectly.

[Darkfrog]

2 hours ago, bkuehn1952 said:

Anyone else dealt with the issue of green reading material and pace of play? Any advice?

No experience with the issue, but I recall that the USGA phone app has a paid feature for legal app-based green contour maps, and maybe other applications exist too.

I have a physical green reading book for my home course, but at this point I have played hundreds of rounds there, so I don't really use it at all anymore, and if I do, it's usually as I am walking to the green from the spot I hit my approach shot, and I have already put the book away by the time I arrive at the green and mark my ball.

[TourSpoon]

One of the gadget guys in my group bought an app with the greens mapped out with directional arrows. I don't think he used it after the first few holes. Its a pretty generic green map like you would see in a yardage book. 

As far as slow play, I like @NM Golf's suggestion. It is an all or nothing kind of rule for the group that gets out of position. If there is something on the line, they will make it happen.  The 4:30 round is not unreasonable by any means and your Board needs to have a strong and clear position on it to make it work. 

[Vinsk]

A 20+ hcp pulling out a green reading book and causing slow play might as well have his name stitched on his tour bag as well.

[Double Mocha Man]

18 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

A 20+ hcp pulling out a green reading book and causing slow play might as well have his name stitched on his tour bag as well.

And his address stitched on the bag so we can TP his house.

[boogielicious]

3 hours ago, Double Mocha Man said:

And his address stitched on the bag so we can TP his house.

With that single-ply they have in rest area bathrooms.

[NM Golf]

On 3/18/2022 at 6:00 PM, Vinsk said:

A 20+ hcp pulling out a green reading book and causing slow play might as well have his name stitched on his tour bag as well.

There's nothing quite like watching that same someone read that putt from both sides plumb bob it for 3 minutes then roll it in for a 7. 

[Zippo]

I don't like being the naysayer here, but it's my opinion that you'd need supernatural powers and have to practice a lifetime of clean living before you'd have a smidgen of a chance of really speeding up play in a senior golf league. With exceptions, many seniors are incapable of playing faster and, having worked hard and long during their lives or served their countries in places we'd rather not be, feel that now's the time to take it a bit slower. Also, the senior league I play in requires that you hole out on every green. No gimmes. That means that there's often two or three more putts than there might have been otherwise for some of these folks.

Also, no matter how often it's explained to some of them, the concept of "ready golf" just doesn't click.  I see them frequently on the opposite of the fairway waiting for someone else to hit before getting ready to hit their own ball. A three-minute search for a lost ball? Ha! By golly they paid good money for that ball and they aren't letting it go without a fight.

And, one more thing. I think that if you could impose some of the penalties described above, it wouldn't be long before you didn't have a senior golf league.

[Double Mocha Man]

2 minutes ago, Zippo said:

I don't like being the naysayer here, but it's my opinion that you'd need supernatural powers and have to practice a lifetime of clean living before you'd have a smidgen of a chance of really speeding up play in a senior golf league. With exceptions, many seniors are incapable of playing faster and, having worked hard and long during their lives or served their countries in places we'd rather not be, feel that now's the time to take it a bit slower. Also, the senior league I play in requires that you hole out on every green. No gimmes. That means that there's often two or three more putts than there might have been otherwise for some of these folks.

Also, no matter how often it's explained to some of them, the concept of "ready golf" just doesn't click.  I see them frequently on the opposite of the fairway waiting for someone else to hit before getting ready to hit their own ball. A three-minute search for a lost ball? Ha! By golly they paid good money for that ball and they aren't letting it go without a fight.

And, one more thing. I think that if you could impose some of the penalties described above, it wouldn't be long before you didn't have a senior golf league.

Fits under the category "You can't teach an old dog new tricks" .

[KMP]

20 hours ago, NM Golf said:

There's nothing quite like watching that same someone read that putt from both sides plumb bob it for 3 minutes then roll it in for a 7. 

Anyone for that matter....even a +2