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Branching this off from the Game Golf topic. Game Golf has been very hit or miss on whether it works recently, so I wanted to explore what may be a potential alternative. I really like my Game Golf unit, enjoy seeing my rounds afterwards, but not enough to deal with much hassle with it. I also want more robust stats and strokes gained information than what Game Golf provides. 

Shot Scope has something that is similar to Game Golf. The H4 handheld GPS device:

https://shotscope.com/us/products/golf-gps-handhelds/h4/

Here are a few reviews that I found with it:

Shot-Scope-New-products@1xX-1.png

A unique package from ShotScope.

What I am really curious about is the level of detail in the stats and strokes gained analysis. Neither of these reviews has much detail about exactly what it is. This is what the Shot Scope website says is included:

  • Strokes Gained analytics platform included for advanced statistic analysis
  • Over 100 statistics that can be broken down by lie type, distance, club used, proximity, round, season and much more
  • Statistics on club distances, tee shots, approaches, short game, putting and scoring

@Darkfrogsaid he had the device. Curious what the stats and strokes gained information looks like.

Edited by DeadMan

-- Daniel

In my bag: :callaway: Big Bertha V Series (11 degrees) :callaway: Epic Flash 3.5W (16 degrees)

:callaway: Rogue Pro 3-PW :edel: SMS Wedges - V-Grind (48, 54, 58):edel: Putter

 :snell: MTB-X :aimpoint:

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Later today (remind me if I forget) I'll grab some screen shots from my phone to show how the strokes gained analysis is presented, and also some screen shots from the web interface to show how stats are presented there (no strokes gained available on the website, instead it shows something called "shots to finish", along with dispersion and some other stuff).

Quickly, a few things that I like and also that I find frustrating:

  • The RFID tags are small and don't need a battery, which is nice
  • Shotscope support is usually pretty quick to respond to requests - for example, I asked them to add extra tee areas on a few holes on my home course and it was done within a week if I recall.
  • The dates are shown in DD/MM/YYYY (so April 10, 2022 would be shown as 10/04/2022). It can be a little confounding until you get used to it.
  • The watch feels cheap compared to a similar priced Garmin device. No idea how the belt clip device compares to similar hand held GPS, and I won't speculate.
  • The watch band is annoying and can't be changed because the RFID antenna is integrated into the watch band. Not an issue for the handheld/belt clip device.
  • The "pin collect" feature when on the green is nice in concept, but I have to reposition the pin in post round edits half the time due to GPS capturing the pin inaccurately.
  • Sometimes the device (watch in my case) struggles to connect to my phone (bluetooth) to transfer data, but it always connects eventually
  • The "My Bag" club selection feature is really a pain to use, and the visualization of this in the post round editor is annoying. Hard to explain, but in the post-round editor, clubs are simply color coded, so I have three GWs in club collection, which are displayed as "GW" in a drop down menu, and are only differentiated by the text color. If you delete a club from your bag, you lose all data associated with it so I haven't deleted any clubs I don't use anymore. The way this affects post-round editing: let's say for some reason I decided to take my ZX5 GW out of the bag for a round, and put my Edel 50* gap wedge in, but forget to update "My Bag" before the round, I have to edit this in post-round, but also try to remember which color text is associated with my Edel GW. Generally this is a non-issue since I don't switch out clubs often, but the interface could certainly be improved. If I were someone who had multiple sets of clubs, this would really bug me.
  • Statistics can only be filtered by year, or last 15/10/5/1 rounds, so if you want to see how you improved or regressed over a period not included in those pre-baked filters, you're out of luck.
  • Similarly, strokes gained is filtered by 25/20/15/10/5/0 handicap and tour player. Right now I want to get into single-digits, so I usually compare my play to a 5 HCP and also against my current HCP (~10). But if you are a 7 HCP and want to get to a 3 HCP, you lose some ability to get more granular in these comparisons.

 

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-Peter

  • Driver: :cobra: King F9
  • 3W: :ping: G410
  • 3H: :titleist: 818 H1
  • Irons: :srixon: ZX5 4-AW
  • Wedges: :cleveland:  RTX Zipcore 54 & 58
  • Putter: L.A.B. Golf Directed Force 2.1
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9 hours ago, Darkfrog said:
  • Statistics can only be filtered by year, or last 15/10/5/1 rounds, so if you want to see how you improved or regressed over a period not included in those pre-baked filters, you're out of luck.
  • Similarly, strokes gained is filtered by 25/20/15/10/5/0 handicap and tour player. Right now I want to get into single-digits, so I usually compare my play to a 5 HCP and also against my current HCP (~10). But if you are a 7 HCP and want to get to a 3 HCP, you lose some ability to get more granular in these comparisons.

This is really what I’m looking for more detail on. Really curious to see what the stats screens look like. 

-- Daniel

In my bag: :callaway: Big Bertha V Series (11 degrees) :callaway: Epic Flash 3.5W (16 degrees)

:callaway: Rogue Pro 3-PW :edel: SMS Wedges - V-Grind (48, 54, 58):edel: Putter

 :snell: MTB-X :aimpoint:

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Okay, so I was wrong about only being able to filter by pre-baked periods. There is also an option to filter between two dates of your choosing. Maybe I missed that in an app update. I can’t seem to get it to change the strokes gained values though so I’ll have to read up on how that works.

The filtering looks like this:

7FFD51BE-5D63-4EE5-81E7-748B0EFF21A5.thumb.png.517c09bd331ec9f4c1d12d34c36a8398.pngC83B0536-EA1B-47F5-B6F7-D0A467589A7C.thumb.png.c1bfc27c34f84e4b7d411b67f0d52d61.png

In the app’s “performance” tab there are 5 choices for stats (tee, approach, short game, putting, and scoring). And within each category there are the ShotScope stats and strokes gained stats.

A7E2C8D0-1BF8-4ABB-8BCA-85841F98F365.thumb.png.490568c3fd93125c4c265d0b287720f9.png

I usually just look at “scoring” since it shows strokes gained in a bar chart format for all categories which is what I like to see at a glance. Some screenshots below (for reference all the stats shown are from the 2nd half 2021, as I used a Garmin watch 1st half of 2021, and vs 5 hcp).

AE25E130-B245-40D4-956D-703D0F5E5346.thumb.png.72ad325b3e1e20f79852dd7ed5568695.png

You can tap some of the charts for more detail, for example the par 3/4/5 charts show strokes gained for different length of holes.

E21994E4-4428-4B3F-9996-6B9203E51399.thumb.png.8882bbf318f85b48876a161ede618b21.pngA4AEC17A-84D3-4858-8F2D-7C70FAE762B4.thumb.png.80353a048cd8e89c7bc8b5f496e5d91f.png

The performance categories for tee, approach, short game, and putting go into greater detail on strokes gained performance in these categories and you can expand the charts for more breakdown of distance/lie/etc. The images below illustrate this. I rarely look at these screens since I know what my core issue is, so I’m not getting so granular in my analysis that I need to work on approach shots from a certain distance/lie (but it’s nice to visualize I guess).

102CA0D9-5E5D-475F-8C4D-B32126A4905F.thumb.png.9fae18079cb60692926b9ad940da3e11.png
A761987D-0CBE-4FCA-BCB9-B09F054787AF.thumb.png.51a95ba2d80c9f0cf33ef1739a081365.png

8722A172-0519-43E7-824E-7E620DAE1310.thumb.png.4fcf216721c4462015df5cebb2207916.png

05E259A4-B9F0-4CDA-9798-93176AAD83C7.thumb.png.050f6fa51fc359ed6a1aae080ff66fb7.png0D9A9647-9C15-423F-B55B-8810B425E58A.thumb.png.92d1239a6ced5a1826b82f79cf3d2236.png
EE323F72-537A-407B-9B2F-73A1200F4776.thumb.png.f02ff6e8262ede83da01e83f44afe020.png
FD2804FF-CCFE-4ECC-8CF7-83307D03ADC5.thumb.png.2e4c5efeebeb9210cb1763b15df9965f.png58477FA6-9403-45D2-87E0-97C4DEFCC1F9.thumb.png.0f954b3484c64ad3663f60326583d89a.png

 

B841DD70-EA5A-428A-B322-0B8ACBC32126.png

BA37B7BC-B328-4815-A91C-752858D1366E.png

A0022563-4AC5-4826-9E68-1DF6CD56C371.png

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-Peter

  • Driver: :cobra: King F9
  • 3W: :ping: G410
  • 3H: :titleist: 818 H1
  • Irons: :srixon: ZX5 4-AW
  • Wedges: :cleveland:  RTX Zipcore 54 & 58
  • Putter: L.A.B. Golf Directed Force 2.1
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That is way more detailed than what game golf has (had?). Having strokes gained in putting and short game from various distances might be worth it alone for me. The approach stuff could be interesting, too, if it reveals a weakness in wedge play or long irons or something like that.

Thanks, @Darkfrog, for all the information. I think this is on my to buy list.

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-- Daniel

In my bag: :callaway: Big Bertha V Series (11 degrees) :callaway: Epic Flash 3.5W (16 degrees)

:callaway: Rogue Pro 3-PW :edel: SMS Wedges - V-Grind (48, 54, 58):edel: Putter

 :snell: MTB-X :aimpoint:

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@iacas any chance you could get a group discount?   I believe I will transition from GG to nothing to Shot Scope H4.

From the land of perpetual cloudiness.   I'm Denny

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One potential issue I am seeing is similar to problem with GameGolf.  You buy the unit and the web-site, etc. if "Free".  That sounds great but it can become a financial problem to maintain the system if not constantly selling units.  Assuming the product lasts several years, they could have a rush orders but then no constant cash flow unless they "Obsolete" older units to get us to buy new models.   The price on the device seems reasonable to me but after experience with GameGolf I would prefer a slightly lower starting price then a small on-going "Subscription" so they can afford to keep the system up and running long-term.

That said, I may still get it.  I do think having objective distance on my clubs is of value and I know from experience I can over-estimate my distances and/or only remember the really great shots which are outliers.

Stuart M.
 

I am a "SCRATCH GOLFER".  I hit ball, Ball hits Tree, I scratch my head. 😜

Driver: Ping G410 Plus 10.5* +1* / 3 Hybrid: Cleveland HIBORE XLS / 4,5 & 6 Hybrids: Mizuno JP FLI-HI / Irons/Wedges 7-8-9-P-G: Mizuno JPX800 HD / Sand Wedge: Mizuno JPX 800 / Lob Wedge: Cleveland CBX 60* / Putter: Odyssey White Hot OG 7S / Balls: Srixon Soft / Beer: Labatt Blue (or anything nice & cold) 

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The belt unit looks similar to what I use for GG - clip to belt, put connectors into grips, tag as you hit.  And it looks to cost in real tersms about what I paid for a GG back in 2016.  I'd be up for it, especially if TST goes in as a group.

Essentially, I want an easy-to-use unit to collect the data for my rounds and be able to determine strokes gained and weaknesses, especially if they can be broken down easily (esp. within categories, such as putts inside 7' vs putts outside 25' being culprits, etc).  I'd really love it if the detail is better than "Improve your tee shots on holes measuring 400-450 yards to gain up to 0.1 strokes per round."  

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-- Michael | My swing! 

"You think you're Jim Furyk. That's why your phone is never charged." - message from my mother

Driver:  Titleist 915D2.  4-wood:  Titleist 917F2.  Titleist TS2 19 degree hybrid.  Another hybrid in here too.  Irons 5-U, Ping G400.  Wedges negotiable (currently 54 degree Cleveland, 58 degree Titleist) Edel putter. 

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@StuM they’re on version 3 or 4 of the watch. I think they’re going to be around awhile.

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | 5SK.com | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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I ordered one. Gonna be awhile before I can use it but it’s on its way.

More of a curiosity at this point.

GAME still insist that they’re turning it around.

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Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instructor Development, 5 Simple Keys®/Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins • Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 • "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 • Penn-State Behrend Head Coach • • • • • • • • • • :aimpoint: :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | 5SK.com | LSW | Instructional Droplets

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On 4/29/2022 at 8:57 AM, dennyjones said:

I ordered one this morning too.   Excited

I'm looking too. Using Broadie's app right now, going back and forth with recording shots on my phone during the round, and using paper/pencil and entering into the app later.   I really want something that "just works' without alot of fooling around.  Surprised how inexpensive H4 is, decisions...

Mike

Driver: TM Sim2 9* Ventus Black, M5 9* Kuro Kage
Fwy: TM SLDR 3W, 5W;    Hybrid: TM M1 4 Hybrid
Irons: TM Tour Preferred MC 2014
Wedges: TM Tour Preferred, 52 @ 51*, 56
Putter: Ping Scottsdale TR Anser 2 or Odyssey Rossie

It isn't the hours that you put in at practice that count. It's the way you spend those minutes. -- tony lema

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