Old Blade vs New Blade

[Thomasredstone]

So in my late 20's I bought new 1988 hogan redline forged blades and have used them exclusively since (when 7 irons had a loft of 37)...with head covers always on em...still look pretty. Now that I'm looking to retire in a handful of years I'm thinking it may be time to "treat" myself to new clubs. Been looking at the latest offerings from Hogan, icon and ptx pro, and am wondering what I aught to expect...will the latest blades essentially be the same as my 88's or will improved tech over the years make em better (easier on the mis-hits). I have ordered up a couple loaners to give a go so will see. Wondering if anyone else has done kinda the same? Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Quack]

This won't be a popular opinion but as im not into the marketing or trying to justify personal purchases i can be totally honest.  There are very few blades you can buy today that are of similar quality to what you have.  I don't think anyone of them are made in the US...dont think you can buy US made blades anymore period but could be wrong.  I hope im wrong. 

 

The real Hogan is no more...just a shadow importing clubs and using the old name iirc. 

 

The Mizuno and Miura blades are a good place to start.  My tip is to look into the so called forging process used in the far east and rebranded by the american makers these days.  Hit them next to your Hogans and be the judge yourself.  

Vacuum cast, form forged whatever is not the same as hammer forged if you want to play a forged club its worth looking into.  They dont feel the same...but dont take my word for it.  Hit them...call experts like the iron factory and get their opinion.  

 

Congrats on the retirement by the way!!!

 

FWIW the easiest to play blades I've ever hit are in order...MP-14 and Wilson Staff Tour Blades...FG17 and the predecessors.  May be worth buying a used set and having them re-chromed and reshafted etc. if it suits your fancy 

[iacas]

6 hours ago, Quack said:

This won't be a popular opinion but as im not into the marketing or trying to justify personal purchases i can be totally honest.  There are very few blades you can buy today that are of similar quality to what you have.

Untrue.

Sorry, but technology has advanced, even for musclebacks.

[Quack]

The metallurgy differences are not opinion. The rest is imho 

[iacas]

3 hours ago, Quack said:

The metallurgy differences are not opinion. The rest is imho 

Metallurgy is better now. Tolerances are better now. Grooves are better now. We understand how to move weight around more now, and we have multi-material blades now.

Forging is just the process by which the clubs are made. It's marketing hype to say that the "far east" method of forging is somehow superior - if I built a blade for you that was cast, and told you it was forged… you wouldn't know any different.

All facts.

13 hours ago, Quack said:

This won't be a popular opinion but as im not into the marketing

:cough:

13 hours ago, Quack said:

They dont feel the same...but dont take my word for it.  Hit them...call experts like the iron factory and get their opinion.

How a club feels (assuming the same contact, speed, shaft, actual kind of metal, etc.) is almost entirely a function of the shape of the club. You can forge a club or cast it, and if it's identical… it's going to feel identical.

"Grain flow forging" (etc.) is marketing.

[saevel25]

I do wonder if it would be identical. Heat treating metal has a big impact on hardness and and durability of steel. I could see the casting process being enough different from forging that it could make clubs feel slightly different. At least enough where a human could tell there is a difference. If that difference is enough to validate a marketing claim is a different questions. 

[mdl]

21 hours ago, Thomasredstone said:

So in my late 20's I bought new 1988 hogan redline forged blades and have used them exclusively since (when 7 irons had a loft of 37)...with head covers always on em...still look pretty. Now that I'm looking to retire in a handful of years I'm thinking it may be time to "treat" myself to new clubs. Been looking at the latest offerings from Hogan, icon and ptx pro, and am wondering what I aught to expect...will the latest blades essentially be the same as my 88's or will improved tech over the years make em better (easier on the mis-hits). I have ordered up a couple loaners to give a go so will see. Wondering if anyone else has done kinda the same? Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks

I'm not a super club expert, but I know for sure that tech has gotten better since the 1980s. If fit well you will be able to build clubs that are more forgiving, hit it straighter, and hit it further.

Also, sorta separate topic, but why the blades dedication? Just an aesthetic thing? As folks playing in the 9-10 range it's not like the most important club characteristic for us is fine control over shot shape... My next set of irons I'm planning on putting a bigger priority on forgiveness and dispersion and less on "playability". I mean, I don't want an SGI set where you have very little control over shape and trajectory. But I've def put too much emphasis on pride in the club type label (as in blade, MB, players iron, game improvement, etc) in the past.

[Thomasredstone]

5 hours ago, mdl said:

I'm not a super club expert, but I know for sure that tech has gotten better since the 1980s. If fit well you will be able to build clubs that are more forgiving, hit it straighter, and hit it further.

Also, sorta separate topic, but why the blades dedication? Just an aesthetic thing? As folks playing in the 9-10 range it's not like the most important club characteristic for us is fine control over shot shape... My next set of irons I'm planning on putting a bigger priority on forgiveness and dispersion and less on "playability". I mean, I don't want an SGI set where you have very little control over shape and trajectory. But I've def put too much emphasis on pride in the club type label (as in blade, MB, players iron, game improvement, etc) in the past.

Thanks again to all for the good comments...here are some thoughts...

Re: "You can forge a club or cast it, and if it's identical… it's going to feel identical. "Grain flow forging" (etc.) is marketing."

Unless steel forging is inherently different from aluminum forging I beg to differ. My dad was in the aluminum forging biz for 40+ yrs and I can remember asking what's the difference between a casting and a forging and his reply was in the forging process (traditional - high temps-block of metal 0-extreme pressure pounding) grain is imparted into the item, thereby, making it much greater in strength. His shop forged landing gear for aircraft and big-rig wheels; both light but very strong. So, I would agree "if it's identical… it's going to feel identical" but the rub is it inherently will not be identical, that is if steel forging is not different from aluminum forging.

About 6 months back my brother gave me a set of Staff irons that had "Forged" stated on the back of each iron but when I tried them they had no where near the feel of my 1030 forged carbon steel hogan redlines. In looking into why it seems that model used 8620 carbon steel which starts off higher in strength but used a stamping process in the making and though, technically, it can be considered "forged" its a very different process. It was noticeably firmer in feel. My brother said they did seem firm and I needed to experiment with softer balls.

Re: "why the blades dedication?" this has been a difficult thing to come to terms with, as it hits at the heart of why I like golf...what do I enjoy about the game. You are right in that much of it is aesthetic...the traditional wrapper does have importance...when I look down at the club behind the ball a somewhat chunky top line is not appealing, which is why most of the player improvement type heads I'm not a fan of.

Earlier in the thread a comment about no longer "can buy US made blades". I was sure the new hogans I'm looking at were US made so I checked it out...the heads are not...was I deflated! I did find a small US maker that do make forged blades but it seems they are somewhat particular about who they make them for, which translated to me means big $$$. As recommended earlier I may start looking at the Mizuno and Miura blades but I fear the cost there as well will be tough to handle...maybe I have been out of the market too long to accept how pricing has gone up.  I hit a bucket at the range this afternoon, mainly 7 and 5 iron shots...most went quite well, and asked myself why do I want new sticks? I may end up sticking with my 34 yr old mb blades after all.

Sorry this is waaaaay too long.

[iacas]

9 minutes ago, Thomasredstone said:

making it much greater in strength

When was the last time your cast iron cracked after hitting a golf ball?

10 minutes ago, Thomasredstone said:

About 6 months back my brother gave me a set of Staff irons that had "Forged" stated on the back of each iron but when I tried them they had no where near the feel of my 1030 forged carbon steel hogan redlines. In looking into why it seems that model used 8620 carbon steel which starts off higher in strength but used a stamping process in the making and though, technically, it can be considered "forged" its a very different process. It was noticeably firmer in feel. My brother said they did seem firm and I needed to experiment with softer balls.

I think it's in your head. You're not "feeling" the clubhead like you think you are. You are feeling:

• The shaft.
• The construction/shape.

But mostly, your "feeling" is…

• The sound.

That's it. Sounds is like 90% of the "feel," similar to how so much of what you taste is actually your smell.

[DoubleAce]

My anecdotal-ish opinion. Blades have certainly improved over the past 40 years. But not nearly as significantly compared to game improvement type irons. Now, blades within the past ~10 years or so haven't changed all that much. With one of the more noteworthy changes being slightly stronger lofts. And maybe being a little more forgiving.

I looked into new irons this year. Hit the Mizuno 221 against my current set of Snake Eyes 600B. Yes, I'm used to my current set. But the Mizuno's weren't magical or anything. They felt OK. Distance, spin, etc. were negligibly different than my current set. And if you factor in the couple degrees of stronger lofts, there really wasn't a difference. And I frankly enjoyed the feel of my current set more. 

Point being, if you're price sensitive, look for a set that's a few years old. You'll not be giving up much, if anything over the latest blades. 

[Thomasredstone]

4 hours ago, DoubleAce said:

My anecdotal-ish opinion. Blades have certainly improved over the past 40 years. But not nearly as significantly compared to game improvement type irons. Now, blades within the past ~10 years or so haven't changed all that much. With one of the more noteworthy changes being slightly stronger lofts. And maybe being a little more forgiving.

I looked into new irons this year. Hit the Mizuno 221 against my current set of Snake Eyes 600B. Yes, I'm used to my current set. But the Mizuno's weren't magical or anything. They felt OK. Distance, spin, etc. were negligibly different than my current set. And if you factor in the couple degrees of stronger lofts, there really wasn't a difference. And I frankly enjoyed the feel of my current set more. 

Point being, if you're price sensitive, look for a set that's a few years old. You'll not be giving up much, if anything over the latest blades. 

good point on the used set...finding it difficult to find em without being dinged up, as a lot (majority) haven't seen a head cover since new...I have seen my 88' redlines as my jewelry...always had head covers on when in the bag...tough to find

[DoubleAce]

3 hours ago, Thomasredstone said:

good point on the used set...finding it difficult to find em without being dinged up, as a lot (majority) haven't seen a head cover since new...I have seen my 88' redlines as my jewelry...always had head covers on when in the bag...tough to find

There are some good resellers online. I've used Golf Avenue, and was very impressed with the condition of their used clubs. Just did a quick search, and you can snag a set of Mizuno MP-18s in good condition for $685.

https://www.golfavenue.com/us/mizuno-mp-18-iron-set

There are other sellers out there as well. I don't think it'll be that difficult to find a set that meets your needs.

I would say that there's nothing wrong with loving the appearance. But cosmetics is just that. I wouldn't stress too much over a little cosmetic wear. Ultimately, a club is just a tool. Tools get used. And tools pick up wear and character.

[Vinsk]

On 5/1/2022 at 5:47 PM, Thomasredstone said:

So in my late 20's I bought new 1988 hogan redline forged blades and have used them exclusively since (when 7 irons had a loft of 37)...with head covers always on em...still look pretty. Now that I'm looking to retire in a handful of years I'm thinking it may be time to "treat" myself to new clubs. Been looking at the latest offerings from Hogan, icon and ptx pro, and am wondering what I aught to expect...will the latest blades essentially be the same as my 88's or will improved tech over the years make em better (easier on the mis-hits). I have ordered up a couple loaners to give a go so will see. Wondering if anyone else has done kinda the same? Any comments would be appreciated.

Thanks

I highly recommend you look at the Titleist 620MB irons. They are absolutely beautiful and feel like pure butter. I’ve had them for about a month now. I can only imagine how a good golfer would love them…

[Denny Bang Bang]

41 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

I highly recommend you look at the Titleist 620MB irons. They are absolutely beautiful and feel like pure butter. I’ve had them for about a month now. I can only imagine how a good golfer would love them…

In my opinion, the 620MB is about as close as modern blades will get to a classic blade from the big brands (can probably throw in the TW blades as well).  They are awesome irons.

@Thomasredstone I’d also recommend keeping an eye out for Mizuno MP18 or MP20 mb if you’re considering the used route.  They’re not very old at this point so you can still find them in great condition, and they are great modern muscle backs.

[iacas]

7 hours ago, Denny Bang Bang said:

In my opinion, the 620MB is about as close as modern blades will get to a classic blade from the big brands (can probably throw in the TW blades as well).  They are awesome irons.

I dunno…

https://thesandtrap.com/b/clubs/callaway_apex_mb_2018_irons_review

(2018, but still…)

[DoubleAce]

1 hour ago, iacas said:

I dunno…

https://thesandtrap.com/b/clubs/callaway_apex_mb_2018_irons_review

(2018, but still…)

Wonder how the 2018 Apex compare to their most recent iteration. Didn't care for the latter at all. 

[billchao]

This topic comes up once in a while on the site. I own a set of Ben Hogan Apex 2s from 1979 and a set of Mizuno MP4s. The MP4s are better. While there isn’t much technology in a pure blade, that doesn’t mean there hasn’t been any advancement. Epoxy has improved over the years which allows for irons to have smaller hosels. Better understanding of bounce has changed sole and leading edge shapes. CAD has allowed club designers to better place the CoG of the club head in the actual center of the face. The MP4s are still blades that require good ballstriking, but they’re more forgiving compared to the Apex 2s.

That doesn’t mean you can’t use the Apex 2s to play golf, and I’m sure someone with a lot more skill than me can use them to play well, but being able to play well with old clubs is not the same as saying new clubs provide no benefit over old ones.

[Thomasredstone]

40 minutes ago, billchao said:

This topic comes up once in a while on the site. I own a set of Ben Hogan Apex 2s from 1979 and a set of Mizuno MP4s. The MP4s are better. While there isn’t much technology in a pure blade, that doesn’t mean there hasn’t been any advancement. Epoxy has improved over the years which allows for irons to have smaller hosels. Better understanding of bounce has changed sole and leading edge shapes. CAD has allowed club designers to better place the CoG of the club head in the actual center of the face. The MP4s are still blades that require good ballstriking, but they’re more forgiving compared to the Apex 2s.

That doesn’t mean you can’t use the Apex 2s to play golf, and I’m sure someone with a lot more skill than me can use them to play well, but being able to play well with old clubs is not the same as saying new clubs provide no benefit over old ones.

Thanks for your comment...very helpful...as are the other earlier model suggestions.