Team Disqualified, Banned for Cheating in Charity Golf Tournament at Moose Run Golf Course

[Shindig]

1 hour ago, Friz said:

Man, while I absolutely see the humor in this, its wild to me the train of thought to get where he was.  Basically, "my playing partner can elect to make the hole 4 or 5 feet bigger, and I get to use that giant hole when putting instead of the normal one, and my score with the big hole is completely legit."

I think we're coming at this from opposite views.  I am so used to the excuses I hear from students I catch cheating that what happened (in @RayG's story, not the original in this thread) doesn't even register to me as bad faith, even when expressed the way you did.  

[RayG]

2 hours ago, Friz said:

Man, while I absolutely see the humor in this, its wild to me the train of thought to get where he was.  Basically, "my playing partner can elect to make the hole 4 or 5 feet bigger, and I get to use that giant hole when putting instead of the normal one, and my score with the big hole is completely legit."

Whoa there, It isn't like he was getting 3/4 footers for pars or bogeys. I'm not talking "Inside the Leather", I'm talking 6" or less. Even HE would realize that a 4 footer left from 12 feet is NOT a good putt worthy of being counted as "in". 

Edited July 12, 2022 by RayG

[bking]

4 hours ago, colin007 said:

From the article, someone's name is "Halcyon"???

That was my first takeaway from the story too 😄

[Friz]

1 hour ago, RayG said:

Whoa there, It isn't like he was getting 3/4 footers for pars or bogeys. I'm not talking "Inside the Leather", I'm talking 6" or less. Even HE would realize that a 4 footer left from 12 feet is NOT a good putt worthy of being counted as "in". 

To be fair I was adding 2 feet on either side of the hole, not 4 feet on each side....reasonable gimme distance 

[TourSpoon]

After reading all the comments, I am shocked to see that people really make up scores. I thought the cheaters just bought up an unlimited supply of mulligans! 

[mcanadiens]

3 minutes ago, TourSpoon said:

After reading all the comments, I am shocked to see that people really make up scores. I thought the cheaters just bought up an unlimited supply of mulligans! 

Sad fact of human nature. When there are no other eyes on a team of four, a team of four will cheat more often than you'd like to think. It's what makes a scramble a scramble and not something to ever get too serious about. ... The best raise money for good causes and people have fun. 

[imsys0042]

My club had it's July 4th Red/White/Blue scramble.   On a par 72 we had a 49 and 2 50s.   Seems sus.   The course does play easier because you get 6 holes from the back, 6 from the middle and 6 from the forward tees.   it's also the only one that is open to non-members, aka the general public.

We are not a private course, but for tourneys you need to be in the Men's Golf Association, although women can play in some tournaments as well.   But this is the only one where people who don't play in anything else will be allowed.

So 23 under par in a scramble?   There are 5 pars 4s that you could knock a driver on the green from the forward tees, but 4 of those require some serious shot shaping and clearing hazards that are tough to clear.   So that's some magical playing.   With 2x 22 under scores as well.

[chicub15]

I play in a charity scramble every year where instead of going off of total score to determine a winner they award a portion of the entry pot for every skin won. Every par 5 is eagled and all of the 3s and 4s are birdied so it takes something incredible to win a skin. The club has a 'hole monitor' camped out around each green to watch the shots coming in and mark the score for each group for their hole. 

About 4 years ago a friend of mine jarred a 7-iron on a long par 4 for eagle. We won the only skin that year, and the prize money went towards the range finder I still use today. 

 

[darthweasel]

1 hour ago, mcanadiens said:

Sad fact of human nature. When there are no other eyes on a team of four, a team of four will cheat more often than you'd like to think. It's what makes a scramble a scramble and not something to ever get too serious about. ... The best raise money for good causes and people have fun. 

my long time playing partner is...not a great golfer. When he absolutely nuts one his drive might go 180. he is more likely to thin his chip 50 yards over the green than be on it. Well, one time he was the best golfer in his foursome. They shot a 10 over, something like that. In a 4-man scramble, you know what place they are landing. But this was a group of honest people who did not understand golf or scrambles. One of the guys was absolutely convinced "we might win this thing".  John tried to explain "there are four of us" and the guy kept coming back to "I have never shot a 10 over in my life"

To the surprise of...well, three people, they came in with the highest score and were given a box of balls each because "it is clear you need them". Kind of mean spirited in my opinion but John loves telling that story. To me, the good part is...there are still honest people who shoot, for them, a legit good score and think it has meaning in a scramble.

[Shindig]

If I had access to Mark Broadie's data, and I don't, and if I had a lot of time that I also don't have, I think it would be interesting to run some simulations like he did in ESC but for scrambles of various formats.

[Friz]

35 minutes ago, imsys0042 said:

My club had it's July 4th Red/White/Blue scramble.   On a par 72 we had a 49 and 2 50s.   Seems sus.   The course does play easier because you get 6 holes from the back, 6 from the middle and 6 from the forward tees.   it's also the only one that is open to non-members, aka the general public.

We are not a private course, but for tourneys you need to be in the Men's Golf Association, although women can play in some tournaments as well.   But this is the only one where people who don't play in anything else will be allowed.

So 23 under par in a scramble?   There are 5 pars 4s that you could knock a driver on the green from the forward tees, but 4 of those require some serious shot shaping and clearing hazards that are tough to clear.   So that's some magical playing.   With 2x 22 under scores as well.

3 different groups getting at least 14 birdies and 4 eagles?  Maybe I'm underestimating the advantage given from the forward tees, but I'd think even a PGA Tour foursome would struggle to do better than that.

21 minutes ago, darthweasel said:

my long time playing partner is...not a great golfer. When he absolutely nuts one his drive might go 180. he is more likely to thin his chip 50 yards over the green than be on it. Well, one time he was the best golfer in his foursome. They shot a 10 over, something like that. In a 4-man scramble, you know what place they are landing. But this was a group of honest people who did not understand golf or scrambles. One of the guys was absolutely convinced "we might win this thing".  John tried to explain "there are four of us" and the guy kept coming back to "I have never shot a 10 over in my life"

To the surprise of...well, three people, they came in with the highest score and were given a box of balls each because "it is clear you need them". Kind of mean spirited in my opinion but John loves telling that story. To me, the good part is...there are still honest people who shoot, for them, a legit good score and think it has meaning in a scramble.

This is wholesome.  Great story.

[imsys0042]

4 minutes ago, Friz said:

3 different groups getting at least 14 birdies and 4 eagles?  Maybe I'm underestimating the advantage given from the forward tees, but I'd think even a PGA Tour foursome would struggle to do better than that.

No one got a hole in one on either a par 3 or 4, there would have been a notice for the yearly home-in-one pot.   All 4 par 5s could be eagled from the front or middle tees.   But that requires chipping in, or converting the eagle putt on all four of them with pretty fast greens.   Of the drivable par 4s, it takes a tremendous shot on 4 of the 5 of them from the front (blind shot, water in front, etc)

I know it doesn't sound like a huge difference but I could see -18 or -19 given the course, but to get 4 eagles in the same foursome is a stretch.   5 for the winners.  I know they had some near scratch people playing....  I couldn't make it so it's not a big deal to me, but I do plan on playing next year.