Your All-Time, All-Sports Mount Rushmore

[Elmer]

37 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

It is hard for me to put a Ruth up there because he played in the 1910's and 1920's. 

Well then we need to limit our "All Time All Sports Mount Rushmore" to Modern Day!

Sure Ruth did not face all the competition that was out there, but he also did not benefit from a modern ball & bat. Not to mention modern medicine and training, as well as sport fitness knowledge.

If we are going down that path Nickolous & Palmer have no chance because they did not play in the modern area,
While we are at it Mohamed Ali is out. Tyson had opponents who benefited from modern medicine and workout routines (and likely steroids').
I also think Tyson's brand of boxing would pummel Ali.

37 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Product of the team he played for. I do not count World Series as a useful stat for baseball players. He was lucky enough to play for the Yankees, the best MLB Franchise of all time, good for him. 

Not only was Berra lucky enough to be a member of the NY Yankees. He was also an elite catcher for nearly a decade. He put up decent numbers (.285 BA) which today would get him a multi million dollar contract
But if we are eliminating players for being on championship teams, we are left with great players who are without championships.
Dan Marino & Ted Williams. Both had great stats but no championships 

 

 

[boogielicious]

I understand the allure of Michael Jordan, but I don’t see him as a GOAT. He doesn’t lead in any category, points, rebounds, assists, championships etc. He was a fun to watch but he only has 6 championships. There are a lot of players with more. Lebrun overtook him with points.

[saevel25]

20 minutes ago, Elmer said:

Well then we need to limit our "All Time All Sports Mount Rushmore" to Modern Day!

 

If we are talking about GOAT as criteria, then most likely not on the MR. 

Ruth should be on the MLB MR for historical impact. Not a GOAT in baseball.

28 minutes ago, Elmer said:

Not only was Berra lucky enough to be a member of the NY Yankees. He was also an elite catcher for nearly a decade. He put up decent numbers (.285 BA) which today would get him a multi million dollar contract
But if we are eliminating players for being on championship teams, we are left with great players who are without championships.

No one said eliminate, but all you did was post WS as criteria to put him in consideration. Bring some other stats.

Mike Trout is going to have better HOF numbers than most inductees, and if he sticks in LAA, no WS rings. If he was a Yankee or Dodger he might have a couple. He would be the same player on the field. Right now, he is being glossed over because he isn’t a Yankees. 

That is what I mean by WS Rings being pretty much nothing to an argument about how good a player is.

 

[iacas]

34 minutes ago, Elmer said:

Nickolous

Tough scene.

[mcanadiens]

26 minutes ago, Elmer said:

Well then we need to limit our "All Time All Sports Mount Rushmore" to Modern Day!

There can and  should be a difference in the criteria we use for our "Mount Rushmore" versus what we might consider for GOAT.

With GOAT we probably do tend to think of it in terms of sheer performance. That would naturally tip things towards more modern-day athletes. 

Popularity and impact on their sport and maybe, in some cases, the world in general probably ought to be bigger factors for Mount Rushmore. Who are the guys that some housewife halfway across the world has heard of? These are the sort of names I think of: Ali, Jordan, LeBron, Babe Ruth, Pele. Gretzky, Jackie Robinson and Tiger Woods. 

 

[Elmer]

4 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Ruth should be on the MLB MR for historical impact. Not a GOAT in baseball.

Ruth was the first superstar of baseball (unless you count Tye Cobb, who was too divisive).
in 1927 he made more money then the president, of course as he stated, he had a better year. His baseball career led to appearances in radio and film.

Nearly 100 years later Ruth's stats still stand up.
Pitching (over 10 years) his opposing batting average was .222. The MLB average is .275
His WAR (wins above replacement, not a stat I really like, but they use it) is 1st in all of baseball history.
Career batting average .342 ranks 13th all time
Home Runs 714, 3rd all time. it took a great man 1 more season to top that record. Then a cheater came along and beat them both.
Runs Batted In 2214, which is 3rd all time. Beat once again by Hank Aaron and then Pujols. 

4 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

Mike Trout is going to have better HOF numbers than most inductees, and if he sticks in LAA, no WS rings. If he was a Yankee or Dodger he might have a couple. He would be the same player on the field. Right now, he is being glossed over because he isn’t a Yankees. 

That is what I mean by WS Rings being pretty much nothing to an argument about how good a player is.

If Trout played for Yankees or the Dodgers he would be the biggest sports star on the planet (really the U.S., but planet sounded better).

I get the WS ring argument, but both the NBA and NLF have used the lack of championship accomplishment against a player.
Marino was great, but no rings
Barkley was great, but no rings
I understand it is a team effort, but when you are the goat you make everyone around you better.

[GolfLug]

Tiger, MJ, Phelps, Bolt.

[iacas]

27 minutes ago, Elmer said:

made more money then the president

Presidents don't make much money. A ton of people make more than the President.

Hardly a barometer of much.

[billchao]

1 hour ago, boogielicious said:

Lebrun overtook him with points.

Hockey insider and on the all time NBA points list? Amazing 😜

54 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

If we are talking about GOAT as criteria, then most likely not on the MR. 

Kind of depends on how you define GOAT. The best player of any era is still the best of that era. How much that player dominated his era by is a factor.

The best player ever in terms of skills? That player is likely currently playing in any sport that’s popular.

[Elmer]

3 minutes ago, iacas said:

Presidents don't make much money. A ton of people make more than the President.

Hardly a barometer of much.

You are correct. However at the time a reporter felt it an issue and asked Ruth if he thought he deserved to be making more money than President Hoover, he said, 'Why not? I had a better year".
Obviously at the time the President Hoover was well paid ($75,000 per year).
The banter with the press and his comebacks made headlines. Just another example of a GOAT.
The only person probably more famous during this time was Chaplin.

[ChetlovesMer]

39 minutes ago, Elmer said:

If Trout played for Yankees or the Dodgers he would be the biggest sports star on the planet (really the U.S., but planet sounded better).

I have to disagree.

Baseball is a regional sport now. It's now the 4th most popular sport in the United States. 

I would say if Trout played for the Yankees or the Dodgers and it was 1980, then you'd be right. But in 2023, baseball is behind the NBA and College Football, and it's way way WAY behind the NFL. 

[boogielicious]

1 hour ago, billchao said:

Hockey insider and on the all time NBA points list? Amazing 😜

2 hours ago, saevel25 said:

I corrected it twice too! I think spell check doesn’t like Lebron James.

[mcanadiens]

3 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Baseball is a regional sport now. It's now the 4th most popular sport in the United States. 

Maybe it depends on the metrics you are using, but is baseball really fourth in the U.S.?

Yes, football and basketball are surely over it.. What is third if it isn't baseball? Soccer?

Also, I'm not real sure the tag "regional" is fair unless you are using a global context. Are there many places in the United States where baseball is no longer played?

 

[Beastie]

13 hours ago, pganapathy said:

No sport has truly had one name that would qualify as the GOAT.  The problem being there is no one metric to measure it.  For example Jordan has 6 championship rings but Bill Russell has 11.  Is he therefore better.? Possibly Rocky Marciano with his 49-0 record but is he truly better than Muhammad Ali who did lose a couple of times in his career.  In golf and tennis would a simple count of majors won be the defining factor

https://marriott-stats.com/nigels-blog/cricket-donald-bradman-9-sigma-batsman/#:~:text=Sir Donald Bradman is the,166 batsmen of all time%3F

[Beastie]

I realise that you are mainly from North America, so for balance I have selected a Rest of the World Mount Rushmore (ROTWMR) 

Don Bradman(cricket)

Eddie Merckx (cycling)

Diego Maradona (football)

Lewis Hamilton (F1). 
 

Also a female Mount Rushmore. 
 

Annika Sorenstam (golf)

Serena Williams ( tennis)

Jacqui Joyner Kersie (athletics)

Simone Biles (gymnastics)

 

 

[ChetlovesMer]

4 hours ago, mcanadiens said:

Maybe it depends on the metrics you are using, but is baseball really fourth in the U.S.?

Yes, football and basketball are surely over it.. What is third if it isn't baseball? Soccer?

Also, I'm not real sure the tag "regional" is fair unless you are using a global context. Are there many places in the United States where baseball is no longer played?

 

Number one is the NFL ... Nothing else is close.

Number two is now college football.

Number three is the NBA.

Number four is baseball. 

It's a regional sport. In that inside the greater St. Louis area. The TV numbers are descent for the Cardinals. Outside the St. Louis area, the numbers are basically nil. The same is true for the Yankees, Dodgers, and Cubs. Outside those 4 teams nobody else even has a pulse, especially outside their geographical area. 

Here's a fun fact. Last year the MBL decided to no longer play World Series or play off games on Sunday.... Why, because nobody watches baseball, even the World Series when it's up against the NFL. 

Even the Thursday Night Football pregame show outdraws the MLB World Series. ... Yes, you read that right NFL Thursday Night Pregame Show outdraws the World Series. Basically if your city's team is in the World Series people will watch it. Outside of your city, the ratings are dismal. Thus, it has become a regional sport. 

There are people who are Cardinal fans, or Yankee fans, or Dodger fans, or Cubs fans. But very few people will just sit down and watch baseball in general. 

[mcanadiens]

8 hours ago, ChetlovesMer said:

Number one is the NFL ... Nothing else is close.

Number two is now college football.

Number three is the NBA.

Number four is baseball. 

Ok. So football and football hold down two spots. 

[ChetlovesMer]

5 minutes ago, mcanadiens said:

Ok. So football and football hold down two spots. 

I didn't do the survey, ESPN did. 

They asked people to name their top 3 favorite sports and this is what came of it. Only 20% of sports fans put baseball in their top 3. If baseball doesn't do something soon, soccer will definitely pass it. It could slide to 5th. Possibly 6th or even 7th, as more people are also mentioning MMA and golf in their lists of favorite sports. 

Or you can look at ratings. 

• Superbowl (okay we all know you can't compete with the Superbowl) gets a 50-60 share. In general more people in America watch the SuperBowl than vote in Presidential Elections. 
• Normal NFL games get high teens.
• NFL Pregame shows get 9's and 10's. 
• College Football playoffs get 20's and 30's.
• Normal College Football games get 5's through 10's. 
• NBA playoffs get high teens.
• Normal NBA games get 7's and 8's. 
• The Worlds series gets 6's and 7's. (1's and 2's outside the cities which are participating in the WS.)
• Normal baseball games that have the Cubs, Dodgers, Yankees, or Cardinals get 2's and 3's. 
• Normal baseball games without those teams barely register. 

Just saying Baseball has become a regional sport. Meaning if your team ain't playing, you ain't watching. Which is not true of the NFL, NBA and College Football.