2023 Ryder Cup

[jmanbooyaa]

It will be interesting not from a locker room standpoint. Most seem to get along. Interesting as in will his inclusion now make it ok to use a pick on a LIv player. I guess we shall wait and see. 

[TourSpoon]

I say Brooks will be on the team. I think Scheffler's comments kind of summed it up with we want to win. Keep the politics out of it. I would consider DJ for a captain's pick. These guys all get along so it's not the issue that I think the press wants it to be. With that said, I would not pick Reed especially after complaining about playing with Tiger. 

[Darkfrog]

I think Brooks is on the team. Right now he is clearly one of the best American players, and I don't think he brings any team chemistry baggage like P. Reed or Bryson. DJ maybe, but hard to tell how good his game has been since I don't tune in to LIV.

[Vinsk]

I’m a bit mixed on how I feel about LIV players on the RC. I certainly root for USA, but I’m less ‘enthusiastic’ if I don’t like the players. I’m not sure if BK was doing a match head to head with Rory that I’d want BK to win. I would root for BK over Poulter or Garcia. I would enjoy the RC more if unliked USA players played unliked EUR. 😃

[iacas]

 

[Brock]

Whats it going to take for JT (Justin Thomas) to make Ryder Cup? Does he have a path after missing 3M Open cut?

[iacas]

5 hours ago, Brock said:

Whats it going to take for JT (Justin Thomas) to make Ryder Cup? Does he have a path after missing 3M Open cut?

I don't think he should. And I think the "buddy-buddy" system that the U.S. was accused of before might rear its head again, despite the "task force" charged with changing that (and other things).

Could he turn it on? Maybe. Does it seem likely? No.

DataGolf has him as 62nd, while he's still 24th in OWGR. And he's not even high in birdie % (34th)… so you can't really make the argument that he'd be good in four-ball by dumping in a lot of birdies (34th isn't BAD but given everything else he'd almost need to be top ten for me to make that argument).

[jmanbooyaa]

Half way home to the US team. Who makes the last 6? Does tomorrow even matter or is Johnson’s mind made up? So close to my favorite golf event. 

[Darkfrog]

Koepka on the team. I think if he's in form, this is a good pick.

I'm not sure how I feel about JT - I guess he has a good track record in the Ryder Cup.

[jmanbooyaa]

I would have liked Bradley to make the team. Good season and has some fire. Not a great look to add JT at current form. 

[Darkfrog]

I think I would have liked to see Cam Young on the team instead of JT or Rickie, but that's just because I like watching him hit golf balls.

Glad DJ and BAD weren't picked, but that wasn't surprising.

[PatrickMurtha]

20 minutes ago, jmanbooyaa said:

I would have liked Bradley to make the team. Good season and has some fire. Not a great look to add JT at current form. 

Agreed. I think that Bradley and Cam Young both have legitimate beefs. The mature thing for JT to have done would have been to quietly remove himself from consideration, thus sparing all of us the now-to-be endless discussions about whether his pick is appropriate or not. But of course, expecting entitled professional athletes to be mature individuals is a stretch. 

I’m kind of disappointed in Zach here. If he had passed on JT, almost no one would have argued. But now he has fueled a distracting controversy. I question his judgement re the bigger picture. He is open to the charge of deciding based on a personal appeal from a friend. Very much not a good look, as you say. I am continually baffled by how clueless people in the public eye can be. 🤔

Think of the PR points JT would have scored if he had just come out and said, “Look, this is not my year. I’ll have better years.” Whereas now, if he performs poorly, he and Zach will never hear the end of it. They have left themselves wide open to that. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by PatrickMurtha

[jmanbooyaa]

Young was the dark horse for sure. The US team needs to stop with the popularity contest if we want to win over there. I like Fowler but show me at least 2 seasons of good form. Plus  his Cup record is not great. JT at least had that. Who knows maybe the Cup propels JT like it did Scottie in 21. 

Another thing to add, do we all think Brooks was picked due to the pending truce or “agreement” to merge with Liv? Bradley could have gotten that spot if they stuck to the no Liv golfer stance from a year ago. 

[PatrickMurtha]

One more wrinkle: I would bet that both Keegan and Lucas Glover are now firmly on the shortlist of potential future Ryder Cup captains. 

Edited August 29, 2023 by PatrickMurtha

[klineka]

54 minutes ago, PatrickMurtha said:

The mature thing for JT to have done would have been to quietly remove himself from consideration, thus sparing all of us the now-to-be endless discussions about whether his pick is appropriate or not. But of course, expecting entitled professional athletes to be mature individuals is a stretch. 

This is an absolutely absurd take IMO. You honestly think that JT not excusing himself from Ryder Cup consideration is immature? 

 

57 minutes ago, PatrickMurtha said:

I’m kind of disappointed in Zach here. If he had passed on JT, almost no one would have argued. But now he has fueled a distracting controversy. I question his judgement re the bigger picture. He is open to the charge of deciding based on a personal appeal from a friend. Very much not a good look, as you say. I am continually baffled by how clueless people in the public eye can be. 🤔

Again, another absolutely absurd take to call Zach Johnson clueless. It's Zach's job pick the 6 golfers that he thinks gives the team the best chance to win. Team chemistry matters. Experience and how well you pair with others matters. It's HIGHLY unlikely Zach made the JT decision on his own without consulting plenty of other people like assistant captains, stats guys, etc. Completely absurd to call him clueless unless you know something about his decision making process that I don't.

 

1 hour ago, PatrickMurtha said:

Whereas now, if he performs poorly, he and Zach will never hear the end of it. They have left themselves wide open to that. 

Ok, and if he performs well then he will prove Zach right. That goes both ways with every single borderline captain's pick in history.

 

1 hour ago, jmanbooyaa said:

Young was the dark horse for sure. The US team needs to stop with the popularity contest if we want to win over there. I like Fowler but show me at least 2 seasons of good form. Plus  his Cup record is not great. JT at least had that. Who knows maybe the Cup propels JT like it did Scottie in 21. 

Young hasn't has had 2 full seasons of good form either though. In a stretch of 7 starts after The Masters his best finish was T32 at the US Open with a bunch of 50-60th place finishes or MC. I'm not sure why you need to see at least 2 seasons of good form. Depending on how you define "good form", there are very very few players (not counting guys who automatically qualified) capable of playing great for 2 full seasons with no dip at all.

Rickie Fowler has been a better golfer this year than Cameron Young so not sure why you're using Rickie in the "popularity contest" argument.  In fact, per Total Strokes gained, Rickie has been better this season than Wyndham Clark, Keegan, Burns, JT, Spieth, Harman, Glover, Young, and only one-hundredth of a stroke behind Morikawa. So no, Rickie didn't make it because of it being a popularity contest. 

[PatrickMurtha]

2 minutes ago, klineka said:

This is an absolutely absurd take IMO. You honestly think that JT not excusing himself from Ryder Cup consideration is immature? 

Again, another absolutely absurd take to call Zach Johnson clueless. It's Zach's job pick the 6 golfers that he thinks gives the team the best chance to win. Team chemistry matters. Experience and how well you pair with others matters. It's HIGHLY unlikely Zach made the JT decision on his own without consulting plenty of other people like assistant captains, stats guys, etc. Completely absurd to call him clueless unless you know something about his decision making process that I don't.

I am hardly the only person to suggest that JT should have recused himself. So yes, I honestly think that. Sue me.

And yes, I think there is a dimension of cluelessness to Zach’s decision. He is already being criticized up and down here. It is distracting. Net result, his and JT’s stock is down; Keegan’s, especially, is up. I stand by everything I said. 

[jmanbooyaa]

22 minutes ago, klineka said:

This is an absolutely absurd take IMO. You honestly think that JT not excusing himself from Ryder Cup consideration is immature? 

 

Again, another absolutely absurd take to call Zach Johnson clueless. It's Zach's job pick the 6 golfers that he thinks gives the team the best chance to win. Team chemistry matters. Experience and how well you pair with others matters. It's HIGHLY unlikely Zach made the JT decision on his own without consulting plenty of other people like assistant captains, stats guys, etc. Completely absurd to call him clueless unless you know something about his decision making process that I don't.

 

Ok, and if he performs well then he will prove Zach right. That goes both ways with every single borderline captain's pick in history.

 

Young hasn't has had 2 full seasons of good form either though. In a stretch of 7 starts after The Masters his best finish was T32 at the US Open with a bunch of 50-60th place finishes or MC. I'm not sure why you need to see at least 2 seasons of good form. Depending on how you define "good form", there are very very few players (not counting guys who automatically qualified) capable of playing great for 2 full seasons with no dip at all.

Rickie Fowler has been a better golfer this year than Cameron Young so not sure why you're using Rickie in the "popularity contest" argument.  In fact, per Total Strokes gained, Rickie has been better this season than Wyndham Clark, Keegan, Burns, JT, Spieth, Harman, Glover, Young, and only one-hundredth of a stroke behind Morikawa. So no, Rickie didn't make it because of it being a popularity contest. 

I didn’t specify which player made it on popularity. It is a thing the US team has been known for. I agree Fowler has played well this year. I don’t agree about most besides the top 6 have solid multi years. 

[klineka]

19 minutes ago, PatrickMurtha said:

I am hardly the only person to suggest that JT should have recused himself. So yes, I honestly think that. Sue me.

I am struggling to see how someone who is known for being a fierce competitor with a strong history representing his country not wanting to remove themselves from consideration makes them immature. For all we know JT has found something in his swing over the past few weeks and is hitting the ball really really well and has a ton of confidence in his game and thinks he has a lot to offer to the team. 

I have a really hard time labelling a competitor wanting to compete as "immature"

21 minutes ago, PatrickMurtha said:

And yes, I think there is a dimension of cluelessness to Zach’s decision. He is already being criticized up and down here. It is distracting. Net result, his and JT’s stock is down; Keegan’s, especially, is up. I stand by everything I said. 

That doesn't make sense because in order for someone to be clueless, that would mean that they would have made the decision without knowing what the optics/repercussions would be. Do you honestly think he made the decision to pick JT without thinking of the optics/without weighing the pros/cons prior to making the decision?

If you want to make the argument that Keegan should be on the team over Burns then sure I can get on board with that, but I don't think Keegan should be on in a direct replacement of JT as the rest of the team stands right now, nor do I think Zach was clueless in choosing JT. 

 

53 minutes ago, jmanbooyaa said:

I didn’t specify which player made it on popularity.

You mentioned popularity and then your next sentence talked about how Fowler hadn't shown you enough so didn't seem like that far of a reach to assume Fowler was one of the ones you thought made it on popularity.

55 minutes ago, jmanbooyaa said:

I don’t agree about most besides the top 6 have solid multi years. 

Is there really 6 players who haven't auto-qualified that have had 2 straight years without any significant dips during that timeframe? I'd sure like for you to list them for me. It obviously depends on how you define "solid" or "significant dips" but I roughly defined it as going 4-5+ consecutive tournaments with a combination of missed cuts and low finishes at some point within the last 2 years. 

I could really only come up with 2 or 3 guys who didn't auto-qualify but didn't have any significant performance dips at some point within the last 2 years. 

Yes - Spieth, Morikawa

Maybe - Burns

No - Fowler, Keegan, Young, Glover, Henley, McCarthy