What If Ball Had Zero Spin

[jfrain2004]

Been hearing this from my instructor and seeing it on the trackman optimiser that the ideal launch conditions for the driver is high launch with low spin. So what would actually happen if golf ball was launched at say 15 deg and had zero spin and initial ball speed was say 150mph. How would it compare to say 2500rpm with all other parameters the same

[boogielicious]

4 hours ago, jfrain2004 said:

Been hearing this from my instructor and seeing it on the trackman optimiser that the ideal launch conditions for the driver is high launch with low spin. So what would actually happen if golf ball was launched at say 15 deg and had zero spin and initial ball speed was say 150mph. How would it compare to say 2500rpm with all other parameters the same

It wouldn’t go very far and would fly like a knuckleball. The spin and dimples create lift and stability. Yup can play with numbers on Flightscope’s trajectory optimizer.

FlightScope Trajectory Optimizer

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FlightScope's Trajectory Optimizer is a golf ball flight trajectory program. The program will plot the flight of the ball in real time after the user's input of the initial launch conditions of the golf...

 

[klineka]

14 minutes ago, boogielicious said:

It wouldn’t go very far and would fly like a knuckleball. The spin and dimples create lift and stability. Yup can play with numbers on Flightscope’s trajectory optimizer.

Yup ^^^

Some spin is needed to keep the ball in the air. Too much spin reduces distance too obviously. 

The optimal upper and lower end of optimal spin depend largely on launch angle and ball speed.

Super low spin, say like sub 1500rpm is also very difficult to control the direction since any slight "side spin"/axis tilt is going to be amplified by the minimal backspin. 

Unfortunately for this exact question Flightscope's Trajectory Optimizer requires at least 1,000rpm of backspin

Edited January 25 by klineka

[iacas]

1 hour ago, klineka said:

Unfortunately for this exact question Flightscope's Trajectory Optimizer requires at least 1,000rpm of backspin

Yep.

I've played golf with a ball that has no dimples. My drivers maxed out at about 150 yards… and that was teeing it up on a pencil and launching it as high as I could to maximize time spent in the air traveling forward.

https://thesandtrap.com/b/balls/caesar_featherie_dimpleless_golf_ball_review

[RayG]

I get a bit annoyed at the YT'ers or Manufacturers all saying "Low Spin" this, "Low Spin" that. A couple of problems with that thinking. Sure if you are swinging at 110-120 and find the middle, yes, you can get away with that low spin number. 

But-

Spin adds stability to keep it straight (Ideally, anyway- talent not withstanding)

Spin adds distance- the backspin aids in the ball climbing. Yes, too much is not great, either. So if you are swing at 85-100, a little extra spin is necessary to grab a few more yards. A 115mph swing can get away with a 1500 backspin # and a high launch angle, while that 85 mph'er needs closer to 2300+ to get the most out of the ball, which, is ANOTHER factor.

 

[klineka]

3 hours ago, RayG said:

I get a bit annoyed at the YT'ers or Manufacturers all saying "Low Spin" this, "Low Spin" that. A couple of problems with that thinking. Sure if you are swinging at 110-120 and find the middle, yes, you can get away with that low spin number. 

What manufacturers are exclusively putting out Low Spin only products? 

AFAIK pretty much every major OEM has multiple offerings that provide varying levels of spin.

In fact, the overall theme of this year's club releases seems to be trending towards maximum forgiveness, which partially comes in the form of slightly spinnier heads I believe.

 

Also remember, "low spin" is relative (both to the other clubs in that brands lineup as well as the player's current numbers). Someone who swings at 85-100 but has a negative AoA and swipes across the ball might already have a spin number that is too high relative to their swing speed so (especially if they have no interest in changing their delivery) a low spin model might be optimal even for an average or below average speed player. 

It's not like everyone who picks up a Low Spin variant is suddenly going to be spinning it at 1500 or something.

[ChetlovesMer]

6 hours ago, RayG said:

I get a bit annoyed at the YT'ers or Manufacturers all saying "Low Spin" this, "Low Spin" that. A couple of problems with that thinking. Sure if you are swinging at 110-120 and find the middle, yes, you can get away with that low spin number. 

You probably know this. But if you don't hit the middle of the face, actually ideally a tiny smidgen higher than the middle, you are not going to get that low spin number. 

 

2 hours ago, klineka said:

Also remember, "low spin" is relative (both to the other clubs in that brands lineup as well as the player's current numbers).

This

[RayG]

15 hours ago, klineka said:

What manufacturers are exclusively putting out Low Spin only products? 

AFAIK pretty much every major OEM has multiple offerings that provide varying levels of spin.

In fact, the overall theme of this year's club releases seems to be trending towards maximum forgiveness, which partially comes in the form of slightly spinnier heads I believe.

 

Also remember, "low spin" is relative (both to the other clubs in that brands lineup as well as the player's current numbers). Someone who swings at 85-100 but has a negative AoA and swipes across the ball might already have a spin number that is too high relative to their swing speed so (especially if they have no interest in changing their delivery) a low spin model might be optimal even for an average or below average speed player. 

It's not like everyone who picks up a Low Spin variant is suddenly going to be spinning it at 1500 or something.

 

It's all in the marketing. They all want to show their 'Maximum' Distance or Forgiveness. Yes- recently they are going with the "Forgiveness" route since Technology is nearly at the limit for getting the most distance. But Distance sells in today's Bomb and Gouge mentality. And the numbers they have pushed over the years are "generally" with the highest swing speeds and lowest spin models. AND with heads with lofts not readily available unless they are custom ordered. Some guys are going with lofts usually reserved for the Long Drive circuit. 7*,6* or even lower that will lower spin rates even further. 

Joe Weekender sees that the "Big Brand LS Model" is the longest driver, they will assume they will be crushing it past their buddies and they'll pick their pockets for $5 on Sunday. Get out there with the -AoA, over the top outside in slash at the ball swing and it MAY go further, but it ain't going straighter. 

Reviewers of those LS models, for the most part, do point out that they are probably the LEAST forgiving versions of the clubs, but when you 'nut it', they are monsters. 

For the casual player who doesn't really follow the 'Tech' involved, you can have a Manufacturer show up and offer a Free driver and just ask if they want more yards or more fairways, almost certainly they'll want yards. Even if it means it isn't the right version for them. When, if they got a proper fitting, the higher lofted, draw biased, regular flex version would get them those extra yards AND more fairways.

[p1n9183]

Spin comes from the difference between AoA and dynamic club angles. The same way "lateral" spin comes from the difference between path and face angle. 

You can achieve 0 total spin If you manage to hit the ball in the center of the club, exactly been the face to path exactly equal (in a 3d plane) and been the AoA exactly the same as the dynamic club angle. The ball will start to behave more like a rock in vacuum, were the best carry conditions would be to launch it at 45°. Off course, the slimmest contact with air is going to give some kind of spin to the ball so.. 0 spin is achievable (almost impossible) but it would just last milliseconds. 

Not even Long Driver Pros hit it below 1500 so... keep those rmp up and straight.