Jump to content
IGNORED

Live Electronic Scoring, Markers, Paper Scorecards, Signatures


bkuehn1952

Live Electronic Scoring / Paper Signed Scorecards  

18 members have voted

  1. 1. If electronic live scoring is used, should there still be markers, paper scorecards and signatures?

    • Yes
      13
    • No
      5
    • Something else
      0


Recommended Posts

Jordan's Speith's recent run-in got me thinking about our golf club's tournaments and the recording of scores. Our latest tournament management software (Golf Genius) has a "live scoring" capability.. Several Board members are anxious to implement this feature in 2024. Currently, we have each player exchange his card with another member of his group to act as his marker. The member is responsible for checking his scores and signig his card at the end.

My experience with "live scoring" has one member of each foursome keep score on his smart phone. An app is downloaded for the tournment. At the end of each hole the designated scorer asks each player, "What was your score?" He records each score reported. In theory, if a player says "6" and one or more members of his group think it was a "7", that would be worked out. Each player often keeps a written scorecard as backup. At the end of the round, the scorer advises each player of his total. The player then checks in with the scoring table. A committee member says, "You scored an XX. Is that correct?" The player says yes or no. If yes, the score is posted on the leaderboard. If no, the scores are checked and the corrected score is posted on the leaderboard.

We run small time senior amateur tournaments. The attention given to a player's scoring and the accuracy varies by player and group. No one appears to actively attempt to cheat but I am not entirely sure every score would pass close scrutiny. Electronic scoring will somewhat reduce our administrative tasks (entering each player's hole-by-hole scores). If we dispense with markers and paper scorecards, that will really reduce administrative duties.

Do you all agree that we need to continue to have markers keep a player's scores on paper and require a signature even if we use "live scoring?" As attractive as merely accepting the electronic score without any checking seems to be, I think we need to keep the paper and checks in place.

Anyone have experience with "live scoring" and suggestions for how to use it?

 

Edited by bkuehn1952
typo

Brian Kuehn

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator

The Hurricane Junior Golf Tour has live scoring on their phones, and players still have to both "sign" the phones at the end of the round to confirm everything. Nothing is official until then, but it does have the advantage of giving everyone a leaderboard, in addition to letting family and friends "watch" from afar.

That said, they have paper cards available as a backup, and sometimes encourage people to use them. You may want to have someone in the group keep a paper card, too, as a backup. Even if that paper card is switched every six holes (in threesomes) or something.

  • Informative 2

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I've often been the one to enter all 4 scores hole by hole on Golf Genius. I've often forgotten to hit "enter" or made some other error. Others have done the same. Fortunately I always keep a paper scorecard and usually others do as well. I would NOT want my final score to be based solely on electronic scoring.

  • Like 1
  • Informative 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites


In the amateur "tour" I play in occasionally, we use electronic scoring as well as paper.  With the electronic version you can score yourself, or a member of the group can keep all of the scores. The paper score card is the official one for record though. The electronic  just acts more or less like a leaderboard.  There's always the, "Hey what did you get on 7?" There was discussion about this on The Wrap the other night if paper scoring was even needed on the PGAT with shot link and so forth. My opinion is, you are responsible for your own score, not another player, or a computer.  It's golf, its what we do. 

 :tmade: Stealth2 driver, 3 hybrid. :ping: G410 Fairway  :titleist: 5-AW  :vokey: 52/56/60 SM9

:tmade: Spider Tour X putter

:snell: MTB Prime X, :adidas: Tour360 22

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

DQ is stupid. Correct the score, give a penalty and move on.

  • Thumbs Up 1

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
7 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

DQ is stupid. Correct the score, give a penalty and move on.

DQ is well deserved given the player's burden and responsibility here is so ridiculously low.

The penalty is given: it's disqualification. It's a game where the lowest score wins, so certifying your score matters. A DQ is a strong disincentive to shirk your duties.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

39 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

DQ is stupid. Correct the score, give a penalty and move on.

What if one or two stroke penalty drops you from 2nd to 3rd. So, the incentive is, if I do not get caught, I get a bigger paycheck, otherwise I stay where I am at. If I get DQ'd I get nothing. 

I say DQ is the best incentive to not cheat. I am perfectly fine with it. 

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
2 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I say DQ is the best incentive to not cheat. I am perfectly fine with it. 

And I know you're not saying Jordan cheated, but… the paper card is the "scorecard of record." It's the source. So, it has to be right.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I make a ton of typos using my finger on my phone.  It would be dangerous to have me do the live scoring.

Live score is fine but it needs paper to supplement it.

Stuart M.
 

I am a "SCRATCH GOLFER".  I hit ball, Ball hits Tree, I scratch my head. 😜

Driver: Ping G410 Plus 10.5* +1* / 3 Hybrid: Cleveland HIBORE XLS / 4,5 & 6 Hybrids: Mizuno JP FLI-HI / Irons/Wedges 7-8-9-P-G: Mizuno JPX800 HD / Sand Wedge: Mizuno JPX 800 / Lob Wedge: Cleveland CBX 60* / Putter: Odyssey White Hot OG 7S / Balls: Srixon Soft / Beer: Labatt Blue (or anything nice & cold) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

43 minutes ago, saevel25 said:

I say DQ is the best incentive to not cheat. I am perfectly fine with

So how many penalties result in a DQ? You’re implying that stroke penalties don’t provide incentive? Why not just DQ any player who creates a penalty that gave an advantage?

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
42 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

So how many penalties result in a DQ? You’re implying that stroke penalties don’t provide incentive? Why not just DQ any player who creates a penalty that gave an advantage?

Because the other penalties are in line with playing the game. The penalty for other breaches is inline with how many strokes (plus a little) it would have taken you to get out of the situation, or they allow you to complete play of the hole. It's not like you're misleading people when you hit your ball into a penalty area and take relief.

In other words… it's not the same thing at all. Look up the other DQ type penalties — they're for egregious acts.

And, yes, failing to certify that you took a 4 instead of a 3 is an egregious act.

And… if you want, write a better rule, and one that applies at all levels of the game. Good luck. Also, read this:

P.S. The historical context carries some weight, but even throwing that out… it's a good rule.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Changing this rule would open up a lot more scoring issues.  The players themselves are in the best position to know what they and their playing group are shooting on each hole.  I'm fine with it staying as is.

  • Thumbs Up 1

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites


2 hours ago, iacas said:

And… if you want, write a better rule, and one that applies at all levels of the game. Good luck. Also, read this:

Don’t have to re-write it at all. Just change the DQ to actual score +2 shot penalty. Done. Making a goof isn’t the same as pulling a Reed or a Gary Player move. 

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

  • Administrator
4 minutes ago, Vinsk said:

Don’t have to re-write it at all. Just change the DQ to actual score +2 shot penalty. Done. Making a goof isn’t the same as pulling a Reed or a Gary Player move. 

Nah… you've gotta protect the sanctity of scoring. At the pro level especially, it can affect the cut line, and tens of thousands of dollars in placement in the tournament.

The penalty should be severe.

One of the topics in the Principles of the Rules of Golf booklet is that the penalty should cover any advantage that's possibly gained, and so shaving strokes should be dealt with harshly.

Again, look at the other DQ type penalties. This one fits.

Erik J. Barzeski —  I knock a ball. It goes in a gopher hole. 🏌🏼‍♂️
Director of Instruction Golf Evolution • Owner, The Sand Trap .com • AuthorLowest Score Wins
Golf Digest "Best Young Teachers in America" 2016-17 & "Best in State" 2017-20 • WNY Section PGA Teacher of the Year 2019 :edel: :true_linkswear:

Check Out: New Topics | TST Blog | Golf Terms | Instructional Content | Analyzr | LSW | Instructional Droplets

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

4 hours ago, Vinsk said:

So how many penalties result in a DQ? You’re implying that stroke penalties don’t provide incentive? Why not just DQ any player who creates a penalty that gave an advantage?

From the USGA…

”Serious misconduct” is player behaviour that is so far removed from what is expected in golf that the most severe sanction of removing a player from the competition is justified.

so you’re telling me that purposely writing down the wrong score is not serious misconduct.

I know what you are going to say, what if they accidentally do it. But, we all know the rules of golf are there to de-incentivize those intently try to break the rules. It’s nearly impossible to prove intent. Signing the wrong score should be a disqualification. Because this is to protect from those who would do it with intent.

Matt Dougherty, P.E.
 fasdfa dfdsaf 

What's in My Bag
Driver; :pxg: 0311 Gen 5,  3-Wood: 
:titleist: 917h3 ,  Hybrid:  :titleist: 915 2-Hybrid,  Irons: Sub 70 TAIII Fordged
Wedges: :edel: (52, 56, 60),  Putter: :edel:,  Ball: :snell: MTB,  Shoe: :true_linkswear:,  Rangfinder: :leupold:
Bag: :ping:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

I feel strongly that this should remain the way it is now. You cannot rely on unpaid volunteers to keep your score for you. And, speaking from experience, the volunteers are not going to want to ask if the whiff they thought they saw was actually a whiff or a practice swing. There are so many errors on shot link, live leaderboards, and the broadcast that it's hard to trust anything outside of the official scorecard. I think the players would even say they should be ultimately responsible for their own scores. 

I also support DQ instead of a 2-stroke penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard. Trying to figure out the intent of signing an incorrect scorecard is pure folly. I can accept that Spieth wasn't trying to cheat, but if it's someone dogged by cheating allegations, I don't think we would accept 2 strokes instead of a disqualification. 

-- Daniel

In my bag: :callaway: Paradym :callaway: Epic Flash 3.5W (16 degrees)

:callaway: Rogue Pro 3-PW :edel: SMS Wedges - V-Grind (48, 54, 58):edel: Putter

 :aimpoint:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

38 minutes ago, DeadMan said:

I feel strongly that this should remain the way it is now. You cannot rely on unpaid volunteers to keep your score for you. And, speaking from experience, the volunteers are not going to want to ask if the whiff they thought they saw was actually a whiff or a practice swing. There are so many errors on shot link, live leaderboards, and the broadcast that it's hard to trust anything outside of the official scorecard. I think the players would even say they should be ultimately responsible for their own scores. 

I also support DQ instead of a 2-stroke penalty for signing an incorrect scorecard. Trying to figure out the intent of signing an incorrect scorecard is pure folly. I can accept that Spieth wasn't trying to cheat, but if it's someone dogged by cheating allegations, I don't think we would accept 2 strokes instead of a disqualification. 

I agree. It takes the guess work out of it. If it was Patrick Reed we wouldn't even be having this conversation.

 :tmade: Stealth2 driver, 3 hybrid. :ping: G410 Fairway  :titleist: 5-AW  :vokey: 52/56/60 SM9

:tmade: Spider Tour X putter

:snell: MTB Prime X, :adidas: Tour360 22

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

We have warnings on windshield shades to not operate vehicle when in place but we can’t have anyone in the tent present at signing to ensure mistakes like this don’t happen. 🙄

:ping: G25 Driver Stiff :ping: G20 3W, 5W :ping: S55 4-W (aerotech steel fiber 110g shafts) :ping: Tour Wedges 50*, 54*, 58* :nike: Method Putter Floating clubs: :edel: 54* trapper wedge

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Awards, Achievements, and Accolades

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now


  • Want to join this community?

    We'd love to have you!

    Sign Up
  • TST Partners

    TourStriker PlaneMate
    Golfer's Journal
    ShotScope
    The Stack System
    FlightScope Mevo
    Direct: Mevo, Mevo+, and Pro Package.

    Coupon Codes (save 10-15%): "IACAS" for Mevo/Stack, "IACASPLUS" for Mevo+/Pro Package, and "THESANDTRAP" for ShotScope.
  • Popular Now

  • Posts

    • Haha this is true, but I’ll be 53 this year and was thinking man it would be nice not to have to carry or push this cart uphill during the humid summer in Kentucky.  Hey at least I’m still walking the course!   I did go on a long hike yesterday at red river gorge with just a backpack, it was nice not carrying a m16/203 grenade launcher and ammo.. sorta 
    • I'm kind of surprised that this hasn't gotten more coverage. I get that the Masters was just taking over all of golf's media coverage for a week or two, but even still I thought this might get more run. 
    • Just ordered a box of the Snell 3.0's.
    • Take a divot? With a practice swing? Never. So then bunt it, what’s wrong with that?
    • My first suggestion is "play" that hole every time you go to the practice range. Every time you go to the driving range, make that hole your first swing. Pick out a target at your driving range that is 180-190 out and hit that shot as your very first swing of your practice session. Get used to hitting that shot first.  Then set aside approximately a half dozen balls and a few times per practice session, hit that shot again. Perhaps whenever you switch practice mods. Going from block training with a 6 iron to block training with a PW? ... before you do, hit that shot again.  Keep hitting that shot in practice, both when loosened up and when fresh out of the car. It will get easier.  My second suggestion is to make sure you carry a club for that shot.  Get yourself on a launch monitor with your 4 iron and measure front/back dispersion as well as left/right dispersion.  Try out a 4 hybrid, a 5-wood, maybe a 7-wood, maybe even driving iron. You could consider a hy-wood too. Basically find something that you are super confident in. Heck, it could be a mini-driver... No matter what the club is pick the one that gives you the highest percentage chance of hitting that shot right out of the box.  My last suggestion is to give yourself a break on that hole. Re-evaluate what a "good" score on that hole is. If it's a bogey, maybe that's fine.   
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

Welcome to TST! Signing up is free, and you'll see fewer ads and can talk with fellow golf enthusiasts! By using TST, you agree to our Terms of Use, our Privacy Policy, and our Guidelines.

The popup will be closed in 10 seconds...