Matt Kuchar Has a Tantrum

[jxdama]

He did  it  because  he was  mad  he didnt qualify for the  playoffs. Had  he really did  it  to protest  playing  in the dark he  could  have exercised his right to stop play, not  hit  into the group ahead, and head to the  clubhouse. Then withdraw so as to not  inconvenience anyone else. That  would  have  been the  classy thing to do. 

[Vinsk]

2 hours ago, jxdama said:

He did  it  because  he was  mad  he didnt qualify for the  playoffs. Had  he really did  it  to protest  playing  in the dark he  could  have exercised his right to stop play, not  hit  into the group ahead, and head to the  clubhouse. Then withdraw so as to not  inconvenience anyone else. That  would  have  been the  classy thing to do. 

Well in his defense…he said he was irritated he wasn’t told the players were in the fairway…he couldn’t see…so he said.

[p1n9183]

21 hours ago, jxdama said:

He  could  have taken out  his  putter and finished the hole putting from the fairway and  it would  have  made  no difference to him or anyone else.

Not if he wanted to shoot as low as he can. 

 

20 hours ago, iacas said:

He's being appropriately pilloried for it, IMO.

Just an opinion as mine. Don't make it right because you or I said it. 

 

20 hours ago, klineka said:

As multiple people in this thread have already stated, whether he made birdie par or bogey it would not have affected his playoff positioning, change his ability to support himself/his family financially, and his job security for next season. 

It doesn't matter what we state and think, if he thought it mattered for him enough to wait for the next day in order to score better then that is all you need to know.    

20 hours ago, klineka said:

It is not a fact that had he finished the hole Sunday that would have brought harm onto himself. 

Impossible to say but you know is easier to play with light rather than dark. If he wanted to score low on 18th then it is reasonable to wait for the next day just because in average you are going to score better. If playing in the dark wouldn't be a detriment to score then we all should be playing all day long. I sure will be doing it! 

 

19 hours ago, Ty_Webb said:

How did it benefit him to wait until Monday? Financially? Also, how many ranking points difference would it have made? That's more than a financial gain. That could be the difference between playing in the Masters vs not.

Exactly, famous tale.. 
"For the lack of a nail the horseshoe was lost, for the lack of a horseshoe the horse was lost, for the lack of a horse the knight was lost, for the lack of a knight the battle was lost. And just as the battle was lost that a kingdom was lost, and all because it was a nail that was missing"

 

18 hours ago, iacas said:

He weighed his potential (and minuscule) amount of "harm" against the for-certain "harm" to about 70 to 100 other people and came down, in no great surprise, in favor of himself.

For you is minuscule. This is, IMO, were you are wrong. It mattered to him enough to wake up early in his rest/travel day to go to the course, warm-up and play only 3 shots. 

 

18 hours ago, iacas said:

Dude's 46. Late in the back nine of a PGA Tour career. Admirable he's still top 100, but… dude. Get out of the way.

Similar comment Montgomery said about Tiger at The Open. Nice.. 

 

5 hours ago, GolfLug said:

Right. He could have just said that if these were the reasons he was protecting for and people would find it a bit more palatable. Instead he BSed about a protest, dragging bunch of collateral innocents with him.

I read that he said that he did it also to support the other player in the group that was in contention, because he have the back to stop and play the next day alone, but the rookie would not and would procced to play in the dark in detriment to his winning chances. But if he also stop then both can come the next day and finish the round. He claims he didn't knew that the leader made birdie and already won the tournament. 
It's just his side of the story...   

[klineka]

2 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

It doesn't matter what we state and think, if he thought it mattered for him enough to wait for the next day in order to score better then that is all you need to know.   

I know that his actions (which were avoidable) inconvenienced roughly 70-100 people. while only benefitting himself. (And not benefitting himself in any significant/substantial manner)

 

7 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

Impossible to say but you know is easier to play with light rather than dark.

Right but you originally claimed that he would have been harmed by finishing Sunday.

Quote

Why should Matt harm himself for the benefit of the rest of the field or the convenience of the tournament staff?

Now you're saying that it's impossible to say. 

You can't have that both ways. 

 

10 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

If he wanted to score low on 18th then it is reasonable to wait for the next day just because in average you are going to score better.

This is where we disagree. Given the circumstances of what scoring low on 18 meant for Kuchar's well-being, rankings, playoffs, his families well-being, etc. I don't think it was reasonable to wait for the next day. 

Like cool he made par and kept his positioning where a bogey would have lost him $58k. Based on what we have heard about the kind of person he is it's highly unlikely he went above and beyond to throw a little extra cash towards the people who he made come back out to the course (some of which were probably volunteers).

Bottom line is that action he chose was selfish and greedy and it is unknown if he would have harmed himself had he finished on Sunday. Those are facts. 

9 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

If playing in the dark wouldn't be a detriment to score then we all should be playing all day long.

Absolutely absurd logic. Playing in the rain is a detriment to score, playing in wind is a detriment to score, we do those things all the time. 

[iacas]

49 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

Just an opinion as mine. Don't make it right because you or I said it.

Which is what "IMO" means. C'mon man. Obviously I know it's an opinion.

49 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

It doesn't matter what we state and think

Then why post?

49 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

Impossible to say but you know is easier to play with light rather than dark.

Nobody's saying otherwise. We're just saying that, in our opinion, the balance was off. That he was selfish. That the small potential reward to him is outweighed by the crap he caused others.

49 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

For you is minuscule. This is, IMO, were you are wrong.

It is an opinion - can't be right or wrong. We just covered this.

49 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

I read that he said that he did it also to support the other player in the group that was in contention

Yes, he made up some bullshit. Stories from the grounds contradict his after-the-fact justification.

49 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

I read that he said that he did it also to support the other player in the group that was in contention, because he have the back to stop and play the next day alone, but the rookie would not and would procced to play in the dark in detriment to his winning chances. But if he also stop then both can come the next day and finish the round.

Kuchar is the only one who played the last day.

[GolfLug]

1 hour ago, p1n9183 said:

I read that he said that he did it also to support the other player in the group that was in contention, because he have the back to stop and play the next day alone, but the rookie would not and would procced to play in the dark in detriment to his winning chances. But if he also stop then both can come the next day and finish the round. He claims he didn't knew that the leader made birdie and already won the tournament. 
It's just his side of the story...   

Matt Kuchar, doing something to benefit someone else?? - like hang around an extra day?? Matt Kuchar of all people?? Do you believe it? Bro.. my spidey sense has got me all jacked up from the poo-poo smell.

Edited August 14 by GolfLug

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, p1n9183 said:

It doesn't matter what we state and think, if he thought it mattered for him enough to wait for the next day in order to score better then that is all you need to know.

He also thought it was ok to cheap-change the caddie. Did he have a right to do that? Yes. Was it the right thing to do? No. You’re defending a dick-move just because of the player’s right. I don’t care what Kuchar thought was his reason…it was poor reasoning and a bad judgement. Period.

[billchao]

3 hours ago, p1n9183 said:

It mattered to him enough to wake up early in his rest/travel day to go to the course, warm-up and play only 3 shots. 

Yea, it mattered to him, so f*** everyone else involved, right? He did what was best for him and that’s all that matters.

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, billchao said:

Yea, it mattered to him, so f*** everyone else involved, right? He did what was best for him and that’s all that matters.

Well…if it was a serious matter…that may be acceptable. @p1n9183 is trying to say that since Kuchar thought it was significant….we’re supposed to agree. No. It was ignorant. 

[p1n9183]

23 hours ago, klineka said:

And not benefitting himself in any significant/substantial manner

For you It wasn't, it was substantial enough for him.  

23 hours ago, klineka said:

Right but you originally claimed that he would have been harmed by finishing Sunday.

It's a percentage game. You are going to score better during daylight . So if you choose to play in the dark, then you are willingly harming your scoring average. 

 

23 hours ago, klineka said:

Now you're saying that it's impossible to say. 

You can't have that both ways. 

Yes, talking about one outcome vs another outcome. Playing on Sunday vs playing on Monday. Stats goes out the window in a single outcome. Is like hitting Driver or a 60° off a pot bunker. Stats tell you that it would be wiser to use the 60° for a better outcome in average.. but in just one single shot you will never know what would happen, but almost everybody would use the 60° because is just common sense you are going to harm you score if you try to hack it out with the driver the same way we all play during daylight.   

 

23 hours ago, klineka said:

I don't think it was reasonable to wait for the next day. 

Again, it's your opinion. Only his matters, and for him it was reasonable to wait for the other day. 

 

23 hours ago, klineka said:

Bottom line is that action he chose was selfish and greedy and it is unknown if he would have harmed himself had he finished on Sunday. Those are facts. 

First one is your opinion, second is a fact he would hurt his scoring average. we are not going to agree on that one.   

 

23 hours ago, klineka said:

Absolutely absurd logic. Playing in the rain is a detriment to score, playing in wind is a detriment to score, we do those things all the time. 

Because they are part of the game, or we play in those conditions or we are disqualified. It's a players choice by the rules to play after sunset, why? because is a HUGE detriment to score.. but it seems you don't see it that way.. 

 

22 hours ago, iacas said:

Then why post?

Because we like to express our posture in stuff ??
I can post here that he was right or wrong because of what I think, but in reality it only matters what he though in the moment, he did the best for him of course always playing by the rules despite knowing he would be inconvenience the stuff. 

A lot of people don't do stuff because they would inconvenience others or receive a lot of critics.. I respect the guys that don't give a .. dime.. and go and do the best for themselves always in fairness to others. If you don't take care of your won interest, no one is going to do it for you.     

23 hours ago, iacas said:

Nobody's saying otherwise. We're just saying that, in our opinion, the balance was off. That he was selfish. That the small potential reward to him is outweighed by the crap he caused others.

I totally get that, I would also in the same situation would just finish up and call it a day... but I respect he made a different decision, we are all different and I'm not going to criticize his actions just because they are not aligned with mine. 

 

23 hours ago, GolfLug said:

Matt Kuchar, doing something to benefit someone else?? - like hang around an extra day?? Matt Kuchar of all people?? Do you believe it? Bro.. my spidey sense has got me all jacked up from the poo-poo smell.

That's why I said it was just his side of the story.. don't know the guy. 

22 hours ago, Vinsk said:

it was poor reasoning and a bad judgement. Period.

For you, an that's ok. The forum would be really boring if we all think the same way. 

 

23 hours ago, iacas said:

Kuchar is the only one who played the last day.

Yeap, the guy in contention finished the hole. It seems Kutchar take his decision before that.
Personally.. I wasn't there so..

 

22 hours ago, Vinsk said:

He also thought it was ok to cheap-change the caddie. Did he have a right to do that? Yes. Was it the right thing to do?

I just overheard that issue. Never formed an opinion over it.
In this case is a dick move for you... not for me. 

 

21 hours ago, billchao said:

Yea, it mattered to him, so f*** everyone else involved, right? He did what was best for him and that’s all that matters.

Sometimes you need to put yourselve first, when you consider it matters to you and you are not doing something ilegal, unfair, etc 

Remember, this is his Job. Maybe he takes it more seriously than us, maybe his is a dick.. I personally don't know. I just respect his call. 

Besides that.. sometimes at work I need to do some extra ours.. work on weekends or after hours. Is part of the job description and I accept that. 
That the tournament can be extended to Monday is a possibility, and the staff knows that when they sign in.. more over with rain forecast and a schedule of more than 36 holes to play on Sunday. It was unconvenient.. but saying they were f** up is a bit to much for me.
Be sure that every guy that went to work on Monday got a free day after that and got payed because of it. Not to mentions the guy that works for free and is a pleasure for them to attend the course.    

[iacas]

Dude.

[klineka]

10 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

First one is your opinion, second is a fact he would hurt his scoring average. we are not going to agree on that one.   

Nah, you can't prove that he would hurt his scoring average had he finished on Sunday. You might be right, but you can't prove that you're right because it's an unknown/unprovable situation.

It is, for a fact, unknown if he would have harmed himself had he finished on Sunday. 

There isn't really anything to agree or disagree about there. You can't prove that he would have been harmed had he finished on Sunday, but it is a provable fact that it is unknown if he would have harmed himself had he finished on Sunday. 

 

16 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

Again, it's your opinion. Only his matters, and for him it was reasonable to wait for the other day. 

I've never said once that I expect Kuchar to care about my position. No shit only his matters, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with it and I am well within my right to call him out on his opinion. 

 

22 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

but I respect he made a different decision, we are all different and I'm not going to criticize his actions just because they are not aligned with mine. 

I'm not criticizing his actions because they are different than the decision I would have made, I'm criticizing his actions because they were selfish, arrogant, lacking empathy, etc.

That's not that difficult of a concept to understand.

[billchao]

15 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

Sometimes you need to put yourselve first, when you consider it matters to you and you are not doing something ilegal, unfair, etc 

Sometimes, yea. Based on the reactions all over social media, though, this may not have been one of those times.

15 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

Remember, this is his Job. Maybe he takes it more seriously than us, maybe his is a dick.. I personally don't know. I just respect his call. 

I'm certain I take my job just as seriously has he takes his, but I have never made a decision to benefit myself at the detriment of dozens of others. But maybe that's why I have a positive reputation in my field and Kuchar doesn't. Remember that this incident is just the latest of a number of bizarre things he's done in the past.

24 minutes ago, p1n9183 said:

Besides that.. sometimes at work I need to do some extra ours.. work on weekends or after hours. Is part of the job description and I accept that. 
That the tournament can be extended to Monday is a possibility, and the staff knows that when they sign in.. more over with rain forecast and a schedule of more than 36 holes to play on Sunday. It was unconvenient.. but saying they were f** up is a bit to much for me.
Be sure that every guy that went to work on Monday got a free day after that and got payed because of it. Not to mentions the guy that works for free and is a pleasure for them to attend the course.    

That's quite a number of hoops to jump through to try to justify this. I'm sure that's exactly what he was thinking, "those people love being here so much that they showed up to work for free, wouldn't they be so happy if I gave them one more day at the course?"

[GolfLug]

4 minutes ago, iacas said:

Dude.

Where's my car?😋

This is great actually! I feel better knowing that I'm not the only one who flies off tangentially straight out of the solar system every now and then. 

[Vinsk]

1 hour ago, p1n9183 said:

In this case is a dick move for you... not for me.

Lol. You’re making an incredible ass of yourself. 

[Ty_Webb]

57 minutes ago, klineka said:

Nah, you can't prove that he would hurt his scoring average had he finished on Sunday. You might be right, but you can't prove that you're right because it's an unknown/unprovable situation.

It is, for a fact, unknown if he would have harmed himself had he finished on Sunday. 

 

Playing in the dark is harder than playing in daylight. That's a pretty simple fact. If his scoring average was 4.3 on the hole playing in the dark and 4.1 playing in the light, then carrying on harmed him. That's a pretty simple fact. Even if he made 5 on Monday or had carried on and made 4, it still harmed him. It's basically the same thing as playing the hero shot through the trees that comes off 1 time in 100. Just because it comes off, doesn't mean it was the right decision. Similarly playing a shot that doesn't come off doesn't mean that was the wrong decision either. People think that, but that's why they make poor choices sometimes. 

I'm done arguing whether Kuchar was in the wrong or in the right by the way. That's not what I'm getting at here. My sole point at this stage is that playing on would have harmed him. The argument the rest of you all are apparently still having is whether that harm was sufficient to make it reasonable to have 70-100 people come back on Monday. You think it wasn't and that's fine. 

[Yukari]

My opinion on Matt Kuchar is either (1) he is stupid and don't know what is a proper social protocol (see, caddie payment incident and now this) or (2) too self-absorbed.  Or maybe both.

Regardless, he's fallen into an abyss when it comes to public opinion.