Ricky Bobby (Driver) vs. Shivas (Irons) - Who Wins in a Year?

[iacas]

Imagine you have two players, identical as they can be without this being a parallel universes type situation, and both are… let's go with 9 handicaps. They're both 30 years old, no physical limitations, etc. One, we'll call him Ricky Bobby, is comparatively a great driver of the golf ball. The other, let's call him Shivas, is relatively a great iron player. Let's say their short game and putting are identical, so their "Create a Player" stats would look something like this:

Driver (Ricky):
OTT - 80/100
App - 50/100
ATG - 65/100
Putt - 65/100

Irons (Shivas):
OTT - 50/100
App - 80/100
ATG - 65/100
Putt - 65/100

This kind of assumes that maybe 65/100 is a 9 handicap level Create a Player.

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Now, here's the question: If both players put in an equal amount of work with an equally qualified instructor, in a year, which player will be shooting better scores, and why? You also get to assume they only work on the full swing, and their short game and putting remain a constant 65/100 (or they both go up to 70/100, or whatever, but it isn't a differentiator between them).

To put it another way, Ricky Bobby and Shivas play 10 matches over a variety of courses at the end of the year: who wins the total match? Why?

I have an answer, but I'm going to hold off on sharing what I think for a little while.

[Ty_Webb]

Woof - fascinating question. So I think it’s a question of whether it’s easier to transition a good iron swing to the driver or a good driver swing to the irons. Speaking personally (which is really all I have to go on) I’ve typically throughout my life been a better iron player but my driving has improved massively lately with my iron play getting a bit worse. 
 

I think it’s probably easier to get your irons better if you’re a good driver than the other way but I’d say it’s pretty close. Took me years and a lot of work to get my driving better again. But I’m about 60% certain if that. I’d be very unsurprised if I’m wrong. I would obviously defer to people who’ve seen both and worked with both. 
 

I’ve heard both sides of it. Driver being longer means you have more time to fix stuff, but you have a smaller margin for error because more side spin to back spin with driver so it moves more if your impact conditions are off. Can also get away with more variance in club delivery with driver (since you have a tee) vs iron where ground impact is very destructive. I suspect at the end of the day the answer really is “it depends”. 

[GolfLug]

I too think a better driver usually has an edge in this situation. Mechanically, irons are shorter and need less leverage and hence a good driver who has good leverage control over the longer stick has an advantage in learning and controlling the shorter sticks. I think descending AOA for irons is more matter of ball position at address than mechanics difference.

An inferior driver will also lose more shots to penalty areas and OOBs. Fewer GIRs with irons not as damaging, especially with reasonably competent short game.

In short, driver is king in golf. 

[boogielicious]

I’d go with Ricky too. I think becoming a better driver, including distance is more difficult to achieve than becoming a more accurate iron player. Ricky will be using shorter iron if he is loner off the tee.

[Vinsk]

I understand this is hypothetical but I think we still have to consider ‘realistic improvement’ for both of them. Shivas is the better iron player, Ricky the better driver. We know that APP has a higher SV than Driving, being #1 and #2. If Shivas slightly improves his driving while Ricky slightly improves his APP, they would continue to be equal no? I’m thinking should either one have a significant improvement in their iron play…all else being equal, Ricky would be the better player because his #2 SV skill is higher. Am I any where near the proper thinking on this?🥴

[billchao]

I voted Shivas. My reason is that good iron play requires good control over face and path as well as low point. The foundation of a good swing is more evident.

I’ve seen guys who are good drivers that flip the shit out of the club but it’s teed up so they can get away with it.

[iacas]

I lean toward Shivas winning more of the matches after a year. I lean pretty well that way, but it's not 90/10 or anything.

Of my "good drivers, comparatively poor iron players" I see a lot of golfers who can use the forgiveness of a driver (ball is teed up, clubface is large) to get away with a lot of stuff. They pull their arms too far around them. They tip back/don't get their weight (or pressure) forward. They hit it more over the face. Some play big pulls or fades, some play big draws or pushes.

Improving a lot of the things you can get away with using a driver but can't get away with using irons often takes a long time. They're tougher things to work on, generally.

If you have a swing that produces pretty clean irons (relatively), then I think it's often easier to sort out the driver in shorter order. It's less of a tall task. It's often "easier" (understanding that any change is still relatively difficult) to change those things.

Caveat: the super over-the-top, low-pull-fader of the golf ball can sometimes be seen as a "good iron player," but I wouldn't rate him as such. This is particularly true if they play short courses and have a lot of very short irons or wedges in, so they can get away with their steep, over-the-top, low pulls and they won't appear to fade too much. Doesn't mean they're a good iron player, just that they play a course that lets him hit their low pulled wedges and still score.

[Softouch333]

GIR is king. You can play with a wonky drive. So…assuming both the same HDCP at the start. Ricky wins when improving iron (ie approach) play, by improving most where it counts most (high SV). 

[ChetlovesMer]

I can't believe I didn't see this thread back when it came out in September. 

I feel as though I could make an argument for either guy. But I'm going to take the better driver (Ricky). While I firmly feel the most important stat (aside from score) is GIR, I feel like a bad driver of the golf ball will end up taking 3 off the tee more often. While GIR's improve your score, penalty strokes kill your score. 

2 more factors I think will play a role. 

1 - Better driving will lead to shorter approaches. If Ricky isn't as good with his irons as Shivas, but Ricky gets to hit 8 iron instead of 6 iron, that might even out a bit. Or a wedge instead of a 8 iron, etc... either way I feel like Ricky may be able to hold pace with his number or GIR's. 

2 - They are both working with an instructor so I think a qualified instructor could help Ricky start to improve his irons quicker than would the same instructor help Shivas improve his driving. 

Admittedly, I make a lot of assumptions in my guess. I don't really know for sure. Even so, I'll take Ricky and the points.