Dress Codes: Good or Bad for the Game?

[zeg]

I disagree that it's "not snobbish" to require a collared shirt and non-jeans. If you don't like the term, ok, but it's a requirement that is solely intended to keep out people who aren't willing to adhere to a particular code unrelated to the activity. If it's NOT snobbery, then please tell me what is. Any way you slice it, you're telling someone that their desired clothing aren't up to your standards, so they're not welcome...

And, my goodness, if I see another person use the lame non-argument that "a golf shirt and non-jeans are more comfortable than t-shirt and jeans" I'm going to scream. If you can't understand the fact that different people find different clothing comfortable, it's not going to be possible to have anything resembling a discussion. "A dress code promotes good behavior" is a useful argument (one I don't agree with, but it's one you can have a discussion about). "A dress code makes you more comfortable" is not. What can someone say except "no, it doesn't"?

[BASHERBAKER69]

I disagree that it's "not snobbish" to require a collared shirt and non-jeans. If you don't like the term, ok, but it's a requirement that is solely intended to keep out people who aren't willing to adhere to a particular code unrelated to the activity. If it's NOT snobbery, then please tell me what is. Any way you slice it, you're telling someone that their desired clothing aren't up to your standards, so they're not welcome...

But also it is important to recognise that it costs a lot of dollars/pounds to maintain a golf course. What is the point of spending thousands/millions of dollars (etc) maintaining a course with finely manicured fairways and greens and a smart well presented club house and then letting people enjoy this wearing jeans and a t shirt. You wouldn't go in to a smart restaurant wearing a t shirt and a pair of beach shorts would you?..they wouldn't let you stay. Golf has come a long way in my view. It is important that it is opened to the masses for the benefit of its commercial survival as a sport. For instance, many clubs have abolished the requirement of jacket and tie in the clubhouse after a certain time in the evening to accomodate people and to appear less elitist. But seriously, I don't think it is a big deal to require collared shirt and chinos on a golf course. Personally, when I play I like to look smart, it's just part of the game.

[goslin23]

I understand what you re saying but to look smart, ie to wear a collared shirt and a pair of chinos, is not a snobbish requirement. Anyway, it's up to you, if you don't wear this you won't get to play at the better courses.

In football I had to wear pads and a mouth guard to avoid injury, that makes sense to require the participants to wear those. It doesn't make sense to require a collard shirt and chino's to walk around hitting a golf ball.. (wearing a helmet and cup might make more sense actually)... I'll wear a collared shirt to be able to play the "better courses". I'm just saying that is has no bearing on the game or how you play it, only where you are "allowed" to play. All I have playing over and over in my mind is Ted Knight's character in Caddyshack, that's the vibe I'm getting from the people who think what people wear is THAT important...

[enduro]

But also it is important to recognise that it costs a lot of dollars/pounds to maintain a golf course. What is the point of spending thousands/millions of dollars (etc) maintaining a course with finely manicured fairways and greens and a smart well presented club house and then letting people enjoy this wearing jeans and a t shirt. You wouldn't go in to a smart restaurant wearing a t shirt and a pair of beach shorts would you?..they wouldn't let you stay.

But you're missing his point; it's snobbery. Regardless of what people would do and who would let you in, requiring a dress code is snobbery.

And actually, many very high end restaurants do not have dress codes at all anymore. I mean, everyone wears nice cloths when they go but they don't have to. Really, only the older, more traditional ones have jacket requirements and such. Many newer, younger high end restaurants don't really have a dress code because it is recognized as class snobbery. Actually, there are some very hihg end, highly regarded restaurants in Casino's and you'll see people in t-shirts often. Some places will always have it because class snobbery is a value to them. Many people like that kind of thing and that's OK. It's their club and their rules so they can do as they please.

[Fat Slice]

The same guy who claims golf dress codes are snobbish because he can't get on a course with his hip-hop gear would, in a HEARTBEAT, turn away a guy dressed in golf pants and a a golf shirt if we walked up to the velvet rope at the hip club where the guy is a bouncer. Dress codes are dress codes. How can asking a guy to buy and wear $40 of clothes be considered snobbish?

[BASHERBAKER69]

But you're missing his point; it's snobbery. Regardless of what people would do and who would let you in, requiring a dress code is snobbery.

Ok, but working class people like to look smart with collared shirt and chinos too. Its not just the middle and upper classes that wear smart clothing. It's got nothing to do with class in my view, it's just having certain dress requirements that everybody (your creed, colour, name don't matter!) must adhere to regardless of your SEG (socio economic group). The fact is that a collared shirt and pair of chinos would probably cost less than a pair of jeans and a t shirt!

[enduro]

Ok, but working class people like to look smart with collared shirt and chinos too. Its not just the middle and upper classes that wear smart clothing. It's got nothing to do with class in my view, it's just having certain dress requirements that everybody (your creed, colour, name don't matter!) must adhere to regardless of your SEG (socio economic group). The fact is that a collared shirt and pair of chinos would probably cost less than a pair of jeans and a t shirt!

What if someones culture isn't to wear collard shirts and chino's? What if a Muslim golfer wanted to play and he was going to wear a robe or something? I know this is ridiculous but my point is it isn't everyone's culture to wear collard shirts and chinos. It's the look of a particular subset of Western culture that some may want nothing to do with.

There are people that don't own a pair of chino's and probably don't want to. I saw a guy golfing yesterday with a red mohawk and what would amount to typical "punk rock" clothing on the course. I'm guessing he doesn't have chino's. Why can't he golf? He appeared to respect the course and other players. Fixed ball marks, was timely and didn't bother anyone else. Having certain dress requirements is snobbery as it assumes a certain value is superior to another and that a superficial guise represents the type of people you'd find tasteful to be around. You're saying that those that don't wear the same kinds of clothing I find to be acceptable (old white man clothing in essence) are not allowed to play a game on the course I do. That would be snobbery I think.

[Fat Slice]

Shirt: $7.20 http://tinyurl.com/lgmvg3
Pants: $9.99 http://tinyurl.com/nm4x3p

Golfing ensemble that will clear any dress code...under $20.

[BASHERBAKER69]

What if someones culture isn't to wear collard shirts and chino's? What if a Muslim golfer wanted to play and he was going to wear a robe or something? I know this is ridiculous but my point is it isn't everyone's culture to wear collard shirts and chinos. It's the look of a particular subset of Western culture that some may want nothing to do with.

It must be what you refer to as snobbery then. But seriously i don't know many people who would wish to wear jeans and a t shirt at a smart club-pay a green fee and then dress scrufilly. Your ideology revolves around the freedom of the individual to do what he or she wants, whereas mine is more about respecting the club that you play at and their values. But needless to say I respect your viewpoint on this.

But seriously, I don't know of any club in my area that has prehistoric dress codes as its for their own benefit (financial) that they have regulations that are inclusive and not unfairly discriminative.

[enduro]

It must be what you refer to as snobbery then. But seriously i don't know many people who would wish to wear jeans and a t shirt at a smart club-pay a green fee and then dress scrufilly. Your ideology revolves around the freedom of the individual to do what he or she wants, whereas mine is more about respecting the club that you play at and their values. But needless to say I respect your viewpoint on this.

Oh yeah, I agree that the club has the right to dictate how you dress. The debate is if that's snobbery or not. But it doesn't have to be. I don't have a problem with it. You could definitely argue there is a modern "golf look".

But yeah, philosophically, I believe in an individuals right to express themselves and that no form of expression is better than another. It's perfectly acceptable to reject societies traditions but still live within and work with society and not be antisocial. You can look the role of outcast or w/e but yet be involved in society. Granted, for some people it isn't so much a mode of self expression as it is being a lazy slob. We have dress codes because snobbery or not, many of the patrons want to be around people who are dressed in what they majority think is appropriate for that event. So it exists. I'll admit, I'd feel more comfortable in a polo and khakis than jogging pants and a ripped up t-shirt wiht mustard stains on it.

[flopdarock]

i was in the clubhouse today coming back from the bathroom...
i took a shortcut thru the proshop to get back to my group and i saw a guy at the counter inquiring about prices...
dude was wearing a fishnet tanktop... daisy dukes... and doc martens...
the song ymca kept going over and over in my mind...
im sure the guy behind the counter mentioned a dress code even if there werent any signs stating there was one at the course

[zeg]

But seriously i don't know many people who would wish to wear jeans and a t shirt at a smart club-pay a green fee and then dress scrufilly.

I don't usually wear jeans while playing because I happen to agree that they're uncomfortable for golf. However, I rarely wear a collared shirt-- usually T-shirts. When I go out golfing, the last thing I want to think about is whether my dress meets the code. I dress in a way that I'm comfortable presenting myself to the world, and I really don't feel that the golf course needs special rules. If it's a nice course, I want to play there because it's a nice course. I'm not interested in the decor other than the green and I'm definitely not concerned with the clothes of my fellow competitors.

Your ideology revolves around the freedom of the individual to do what he or she wants, whereas mine is more about respecting the club that you play at and their values. But needless to say I respect your viewpoint on this.

Nice to see some civil disagreement in this thread at times.

I know you weren't addressing me, so I hope you don't mind if I respond. I certainly understand your point about "respecting the club," but with regard to the original question, I feel that these particular values of the clubs are harmful to the game as a whole. Certainly it's the right of the members to make that decision for themselves, but I think it's in the interest of the sport to welcome as many people to its participants as it can. Requiring a "cultural test" as admission is just another barrier. There are definitely elements of "golf culture" that I think need to be preserved, but I don't think the dress code is something that needs to survive.

But seriously, I don't know of any club in my area that has prehistoric dress codes as its for their own benefit (financial) that they have regulations that are inclusive and not unfairly discriminative.

My concern isn't so much with fairness as with opening the sport to everyone. I'd rather play alongside people who I think dress/act funny than have those people feel like golf wasn't open to them unless they changed their appearance. If they're capable of playing and being polite, that's enough for me.

[goslin23]

Golfer A is rude to the staff, does not let people play through when there's a clear hole in front of him, does not repair divots on the greens, doesn't yell fore when he shanks one into the group on the next fairway, is drunk by the 3rd hole.. But damn, he's dressed nice.. (I played with this guy, it sucked!)

Golfer B, polite, fast play, repairs golfer A's ball marks as well as his own, is conscious of others around his potential landing zones, wearing cargo shorts and a t-shirt..

Who do you want to be paired with?

[Chas]

False dichotomy. It is not too much for GC mgt. to expect players to respect the rules, incl. local ones, AND to respect a reasonable code of dress.

This ideological talk of "freedom" is a bit silly IMO (respectfully ....). You want to start a GC-for-Slobs*, feel free - noone's gonna stop you, it IS a free country.

* belt at least 4 inches below waist; T shirts, net shirts or no shirts only; deodorant use BANNED (dog sniff test at starter's hut).

Hmmmm, are there any nudist courses? The ultimate dress code I suppose.

[Titleistgolf16]

Well this is my first post so I'd like to say hi everyone. And I agree with a dress code and I'm 16. Not a strict dress code maybe a collared shirt and no jeans. But cargo shirts aren't bad. I wear them there just brown, kaki, or white and I looks fine with a collared shirt.

[zeg]

False dichotomy. It is not too much for GC mgt. to expect players to respect the rules, incl. local ones, AND to respect a reasonable code of dress.

This is another of those pseudo-arguments that keeps showing back up here. The example was not presented as a logical dichotomy. The point is simply (to try) to point out that dress is less important than other aspects of golf traditions. Of course someone can both dress per your tastes and play with etiquette.

The problem with that, of course, is that it presumes that YOUR tastes are inherently preferable to mine. There are practical reasons for most of the behavioral etiquette on the course: calling fore to avoid injury; not stepping on a putting line to keep the game fair; etc. The dress comes down purely to aesthetic preferences.

This ideological talk of "freedom" is a bit silly IMO (respectfully ....). You want to start a GC-for-Slobs*, feel free - noone's gonna stop you, it IS a free country.

You want to talk about a false dichotomy... I'd settle for a GC-for-people-who-dont-give-a-whit-one-way-or-the-other. It's not a debate between two modes, it's a debate between "traditional golf attire only" and "whatever."

Hmmmm, are there any nudist courses? The ultimate dress code I suppose.

Heh. There are some practical problems with the nudist golfing... centrifugal forces in the down swing might result in some embarrassing moments...

[shades9323]

I don't see HOW people play in jeans (at least in warm weather.) I don't even wear jeans when hitting in the net in my back yard. Too uncomfortable, too tight, too hot, and not enough give.

Stop being emo and wearing your jeans skin tight like a girl. My jeans fit just like my khakis.

[Fourputt]

Stop being emo and wearing your jeans skin tight like a girl. My jeans fit just like my khakis.

The truth. I've lived for the last 45 years in the west (Montana and Colorado). Most folks here own two types of jeans... work jeans and casual dress jeans. When I wear them to play golf, it's the casual dress ones. They may be the same brand, but the good ones are not dirty or stained or worn out. I only wear them to play golf in cool or cold weather. I don't try to wear them to courses where it might not be allowed (I do respect their right to be uppity, however wrong it may be

). But there is nothing about properly fitted jeans that is less comfortable than any other type of slacks. Those who don't agree either don't wear the right size or style, or it's all in your head.