whats a good handicap?

[Hairy Feet]

  Slicer2tl said:

Originally Posted by Slicer2tl

I am sorry that this is my first post, however this particular thread is the reason why I signed up.

I am a 7.92 handicap, I play on courses that have a rating of 73- 76 on a regular basis, the vast majority of players that I play with believe this is true:

A scratch golfer is Good

A + golfer is Very Good

A 1-10 is moderate golfer (almost 90 percent require putting practice)

A 11-18 wont slow you down but are ok

A 19-26 is frustrating to play with

However, when I play public courses the majority of people that I play with play but a few times a year and are out there for the fun, these types of players don't understand the game and can not understand why there doing what there doing... I would group these players in the bracket of 25 +, and most of these golfers ask why I don't consider playing golf for a living, ( I always respond, I'm not nearly good enough)

I suppose I don't understand why a golfer who shoots a 80 is considered "good" in most peoples opinions... Anyone who can make 85 of there shots count and the other 15 are crap needs practice.

I participate in matches through the season, And time in and time out the "real" difference between myself and a scratch golfer is but a few shots, however in the game of golf those "few" shots really really matter.

I realize that many would like to be a 10 or less, however if you get there, you realize how bad you really are....

I'm not sure how the handicap system operates in the U.S.A. For example, you say you're only a few shots worse than a scratch player but your handicap is 8... So is your handicap a genuine handicap or have the scoring pixies got it wrong and accidently given you an 8 when in fact it should be just "a few shots" difference at 3? And 8 isn't "not nearly good enough," it's miles away.

Sorry buddy, but I've been down at this level for almost 35 years now and have played against plenty of scratch guys in loads of comps, and local pro's when filling in for our pro in matchplay league matches... if you think 8 is close to scratch you need your meds sorting out.

As for your comment about higher handicap golfers; I'm happy to play with anyone who knows how to behave out on the course irrespective of handicap. The golfers I don't like playing with are those that are arrogant towards higher handicap golfers, forgetting its not that long ago we were all at that level and needed all the help and encouragement we could get. One day, when age has really got a grip I'll be back up in the higher handicap region and I'd like to think my fellow golfers will give me a game and not turn their back on me. Wonder if they'll welcome you so readily?

[x129]

Lets face it if you have a handicap (pretty much any one), you suck. If you were any good at all you would be on the PGA tour and those guys don't have handicaps. And even if you are only okay, you would at least be playing on nationwide. You have to be really terrible and pathetic golfer to have a handicap.

I don't know about most offensive, but that should  be in the running for most arrogant. The reality of handicaps is that if your friends are 18s, a 10 is a good handicap. If your friends are scratch, a 10 sucks. In the rest of the world (other than qualifing to play Open qualifiers) no one cares about your handicap.

  Shorty said:

Originally Posted by Shorty

Quite possibly the most offensive and arrogant post ever on this site.

[sacm3bill]

  Hairy Feet said:

Originally Posted by Hairy Feet

25% of male golfers break 90... The average score by male golfers is 97... 6% of male golfers break 80...

Where did you get those numbers? Not saying they're wrong, just curious what study you're referencing.

[Shorty]

  Hairy Feet said:

Originally Posted by Hairy Feet

As for your comment about higher handicap golfers; I'm happy to play with anyone who knows how to behave out on the course irrespective of handicap. The golfers I don't like playing with are those that are arrogant towards higher handicap golfers, forgetting its not that long ago we were all at that level and needed all the help and encouragement we could get. One day, when age has really got a grip I'll be back up in the higher handicap region and I'd like to think my fellow golfers will give me a game and not turn their back on me. Wonder if they'll welcome you so readily?

Very well said.

The ideas that certain players will or won't "hold you up" or are "frustrating to play with" would only come from someone who isn't as good as he thinks he is.

I've never seen a more judgemental and disgusting post than that made by Slicer2tl.

Imagine how "frustrating" it would be playing with someone recovering from a heart transplant or who just isn't that great despite loving the game and doing the best they can.

I'd play with a 45 mmarker before I played a single hole with someone with his attitude.

[B-Con]

The way I see it, "scratch" means "practically flawless". If you are scratch, you have basically a [i]practically[/i] flawless game. Sure you could be better, and sure you have a flaw or two, but it's pretty much impossible to find reasonable fault with your game. At that point, the only way to get better is to exceed the expectations of precision. Scratch doesn't assume you drive the ball crazy far, it doesn't assume you hole out from off the green, it doesn't assume you stick your irons next to the pin, and it doesn't assume you make crazy long putts. It just assumes you always put the ball in the fairway, then put it on the green, then lag correctly, then tap in. On easier holes you'll occasionally get a birdie. On harder holes you'll occasionally get a bogey. But basically, you're playing pretty humanly close to without flaw. So to be scratch I would say is "pretty much perfect". "Good" is something I would say is hard to achieve, shows a high level of competence, but is clearly not without any flaw. I'd say it's about 3 - 10, from my perspective, with 0-3 being something like "crazy good". Following from that, "pretty decent" is 10-15, and "decent" is 15 - 20. Although, if I were talking to a non-golfer I'd just label everything below a 13 as "good" and below a 20 as "decent". [quote name="Hairy Feet" url="/t/20708/whats-a-good-handicap/126#post_663242"] 25% of male golfers break 90. The average score by male golfers is 97. 6% of male golfers break 80. [/quote] [quote name="allin" url="/t/20708/whats-a-good-handicap/126#post_617891"] USGA surveyed golfers a few years ago by actually having staff go to courses, even checked swing speed etc, so they could include golfers who don't keep handicaps, the majority. For regular or avid golfers the average handicap is between 15 and 16. So using that as average for experienced avid golfers I would say 6 or below is a good golfer. It is difficult to get to 6 or less if you don't do almost everything at least decently. Several posters pointed out that it is sort of relative to what level you play at. It always amuses me when I am practicing and newer golfers tell me how good I am. But from their perspective I guess they are right, if you struggle to break 100 then someone like myself in the 82-87 range seems prettty good. But at my level there are a number of things I still do poorly, My sand play is poor and I lack distance with the driver. I am pretty straight and except for the sand play have an above average short game. If I could add twenty yards to my drives without losing accuracy and improve my sand play I would have a shot at single digits. But even then I would probably have few birdies. A six would either have to be very consistent or throw in some birdies.[/quote] Either of you have a source? It would be very interesting to see confirmed stats for the non-handicap keeping masses.

[mdl]

I was just thinking about this the other day.  Good is all relative.  3 years ago I would have thought someone who bounces around an index of 10 (like I currently am) was a good golfer.  I'm currently bouncing around a 10 and I think of myself as pretty much a hacker still.  I don't really feel like I'm playing with someone who's good at golf unless I'm playing with someone who's in the 5-6 (or better) range.  I'm sure when I'm a 6 I'll feel like the good golfers are the ones at least in the 2.5-3 range.

[sean_miller]

  Shorty said:

Originally Posted by Shorty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slicer2tl

A scratch golfer is Good

A + golfer is Very Good

A 1-10 is moderate golfer (almost 90 percent require putting practice)

A 11-18 wont slow you down but are ok

A 19-26 is frustrating to play with

Quite possibly the most offensive and arrogant post ever on this site.

HAHA - good one.

Wait a minute . . . you're not serious are you. I mean YOU'RE not serious are YOU?!?!?

[Lofty Lefty]

  mdl said:

Originally Posted by mdl

I was just thinking about this the other day.  Good is all relative.  3 years ago I would have thought someone who bounces around an index of 10 (like I currently am) was a good golfer.  I'm currently bouncing around a 10 and I think of myself as pretty much a hacker still.  I don't really feel like I'm playing with someone who's good at golf unless I'm playing with someone who's in the 5-6 (or better) range.  I'm sure when I'm a 6 I'll feel like the good golfers are the ones at least in the 2.5-3 range.

This is the beautiful nature of golf, or perhaps more so, proper golfers.

Golf is about the never-ending quest for improvement. It's why Tiger changed his swing in 2000 or so after winning 4 straight majors - he wanted to get better.

Everyone wants to improve (that is, every proper golfer) and keep getting lower and lower scores consistently. You might set yourself a milestone of say an 18hc whilst you're at 27. Once you get there you realize that you can get so much better, so you say you want to reach 12, and then it continues on and on.

That was how I progressed. I was about an 18 for a few years. Now, I'm disgusted if I shoot an 18!

As someone else already said, a good handicap is one that gets lower , no matter what the number is.

What's a proper golfer?

I define a proper golfer as someone who embraces the challenge of trying to improve their game. They care about their score and want to get as low a hc as possible. An improper golfer treats golf as a pastime, not a sport. They generally want to keep their hc high and are stressed when they lose a couple shots after a good round, because they want to keep winning their weekly club competitions. That's not in the spirit of the game, I don't think.

I think we should be trying to improve, working toward the common goal of lowering our handicaps.

[Kobey]

  Lofty Lefty said:

Originally Posted by Lofty Lefty

An improper golfer treats golf as a pastime, not a sport.

Quite possibly the most offensive and arrogant post ever on this site.

[Hairy Feet]

  sacm3bill said:

Originally Posted by sacm3bill

Where did you get those numbers? Not saying they're wrong, just curious what study you're referencing.

Golfchannelsolutions.com

[sean_miller]

  Hairy Feet said:

Originally Posted by Hairy Feet

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slicer2tl

I am sorry that this is my first post, however this particular thread is the reason why I signed up.

I am a 7.92 handicap, I play on courses that have a rating of 73- 76 on a regular basis, the vast majority of players that I play with believe this is true:

A scratch golfer is Good

A + golfer is Very Good

A 1-10 is moderate golfer (almost 90 percent require putting practice)

A 11-18 wont slow you down but are ok

A 19-26 is frustrating to play with

However, when I play public courses the majority of people that I play with play but a few times a year and are out there for the fun, these types of players don't understand the game and can not understand why there doing what there doing... I would group these players in the bracket of 25 +, and most of these golfers ask why I don't consider playing golf for a living, ( I always respond, I'm not nearly good enough)

I suppose I don't understand why a golfer who shoots a 80 is considered "good" in most peoples opinions... Anyone who can make 85 of there shots count and the other 15 are crap needs practice.

I participate in matches through the season, And time in and time out the "real" difference between myself and a scratch golfer is but a few shots, however in the game of golf those "few" shots really really matter.

I realize that many would like to be a 10 or less, however if you get there, you realize how bad you really are....

I'm not sure how the handicap system operates in the U.S.A. For example, you say you're only a few shots worse than a scratch player but your handicap is 8... So is your handicap a genuine handicap or have the scoring pixies got it wrong and accidently given you an 8 when in fact it should be just "a few shots" difference at 3? And 8 isn't "not nearly good enough," it's miles away.

Sorry buddy, but I've been down at this level for almost 35 years now and have played against plenty of scratch guys in loads of comps, and local pro's when filling in for our pro in matchplay league matches... if you think 8 is close to scratch you need your meds sorting out.

As for your comment about higher handicap golfers; I'm happy to play with anyone who knows how to behave out on the course irrespective of handicap. The golfers I don't like playing with are those that are arrogant towards higher handicap golfers, forgetting its not that long ago we were all at that level and needed all the help and encouragement we could get. One day, when age has really got a grip I'll be back up in the higher handicap region and I'd like to think my fellow golfers will give me a game and not turn their back on me. Wonder if they'll welcome you so readily?

Maybe his experience with players in that handicap range is truly awful. I don't know him so I'll refrain from judging him based on that comment.

But I will call into question his math skills, even though I have none myself.

85 good shots plus 15 bad ones is > 80 by 20 strokes. Isn't it?!?

[Lofty Lefty]

  Kobey said:

Originally Posted by Kobey

Quite possibly the most offensive and arrogant post ever on this site.

I'm trying to use the term loosely...

Would you class a sandbagger as a 'proper' golfer?

Proper golfers play proper golf, that's all I'm saying. People who don't play proper golf (I mean by the rules, in comps etc) are playing somethings else. It's still golf, just not properly??

[Kobey]

  Lofty Lefty said:

Originally Posted by Lofty Lefty

I'm trying to use the term loosely...

Would you class a sandbagger as a 'proper' golfer?

Proper golfers play proper golf, that's all I'm saying. People who don't play proper golf (I mean by the rules, in comps etc) are playing somethings else. It's still golf, just not properly??

I knew what you meant.  I just couldn't resist using the new catchphrase.

[zipazoid]

So I just read 9 pages of this thread & concluded this -

You can't adequately define 'good'. It's like defining 'pretty'. It's in the eye of the beholder.

I'm a 7, so I think anyone better than me is good. I'm sure a 15 thinks I'm good. I'm sure a 25 thinks the 15 is good, and so on.

[Lofty Lefty]

  Kobey said:

Originally Posted by Kobey

I knew what you meant.  I just couldn't resist using the new catchphrase.

All good mate, just didn't want to be taken the wrong way!

Quite often after a hole, a member of the group will ask the player who's card he's marking....

"What'd you have there?"

"4 for 2" (stokes for stableford points)

"Don't you get a shot on that hole?"

"Nope."

"That's what you get for being a good golfer."

[robinoso]

I have a 20 handicap and I see myself as a crappy golfer.  I play with a guy who is a 10 and thinks he sucks.  Part of that is just in our heads and say it somewhat jokingly after a round looking at our cards, but there is truth to that.  I keep track of FIR, GIR, Putts and well....if you go back and look at your card like me - you will say you suck (w/ my marks).  I know that my short game is the biggest issue.  I mean really getting a bogey or a double (which I can still do) from 60 in after a drive is just stupid.

When I started a year ago I though people who shot 90 or better are good, but now that I've broke 90, it's really not that great.  There are TONS of bad shots still taking place.  So as my game progresses, I will always say good golf is lower than what I shoot.  Great golf is keeping your composure and having fun.

[The Recreational Golfer]

We could say that anyone who performs at better than one standard deviation from the mean is a "good" golfer. If you're better than about 84% of the rest of the people who do something, I would say you're good at it.

[kcgolfa1]

I would say a bogey golfer is a good handicap. 18 Hcp or below seems fair. I mean your at the point where you know what your doing and you can get around a course in 4 hours or less.