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Tee Restrictions by Handicap


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Should Courses Limit the Back Tees to Low-Handicap Players?  

78 members have voted

  1. 1. Should Courses Limit the Back Tees to Low-Handicap Players?

    • Yes, "seeing the whole course" is pointless when you shoot 115.
    • No, tee choice does not factor into the speed of play.


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I voted "no" but do not totally agree with the comment that tee choice has no impact on time of play.  In some instances it can, but I am of the belief that slow play does not always mean high handicap - look at the PGA Tour.  As a 17 HCP I can have some high scores but still play at a good pace.  That being said I stay away from the tips because I know I do not have the distance to enjoy myself.

Edited by NJpatbee
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34 minutes ago, Lihu said:

From the numerous times I was stuck behind slow groups, the culprit seems to be lack of direction and taking too long to putt.

 

Agree that are many, many reasons for slow play, the course backing up and generally making a round of golf play much longer than it should.

My home course has 2 holes, one on each side that backs up both nines all day long.  On front side is a 300 yard par 4 that some can drive.  This means some groups wait until the green clears until those 'going for it' can tee and hit.  Big backup on that hole--always 2 groups, sometimes 3.

On the back nine the bigger backup comes on a 170 yard par three over a ravine.  Both sides of the green are shrouded by massive old growth oak trees.  Woods on the right, OB left.  Green is wide and not deep and very difficult to put a ball on it.  I've played in a 4-some of decent players and racked up a collective score of 23 on that hole!  Arrive at this hole and there are usually 3 groups on hand.  The back nine never regains normal pace from #13 on.

My last comment is always that for heaven's sake, my wife is still a relative noob at this game and can still get around ANY 18 hole course in 3.5 hours MAX.  And she's shooting 100-110!  She fells it when the round is looking like 4 hours or longer.  Even SHE can feel when we're not playing a normal pace.

There is absolutely no ONE cause of or a simple easy FIX for slow play.  It just happens.  And it happens all the time.

dave

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8 minutes ago, dave s said:

Agree that are many, many reasons for slow play, the course backing up and generally making a round of golf play much longer than it should.

My home course has 2 holes, one on each side that backs up both nines all day long.  On front side is a 300 yard par 4 that some can drive.  This means some groups wait until the green clears until those 'going for it' can tee and hit.  Big backup on that hole--always 2 groups, sometimes 3.

On the back nine the bigger backup comes on a 170 yard par three over a ravine.  Both sides of the green are shrouded by massive old growth oak trees.  Woods on the right, OB left.  Green is wide and not deep and very difficult to put a ball on it.  I've played in a 4-some of decent players and racked up a collective score of 23 on that hole!  Arrive at this hole and there are usually 3 groups on hand.  The back nine never regains normal pace from #13 on.

My last comment is always that for heaven's sake, my wife is still a relative noob at this game and can still get around ANY 18 hole course in 3.5 hours MAX.  And she's shooting 100-110!  She fells it when the round is looking like 4 hours or longer.  Even SHE can feel when we're not playing a normal pace.

There is absolutely no ONE cause of or a simple easy FIX for slow play.  It just happens.  And it happens all the time.

dave

From what I've read about her, she would likely be the one cussing out the slow players in front. :-D

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@dave s Your wife does't hit the ball that far. Despite shooting 100-110, her ball is almost always in play unless she dunks it in a water hazard. She spends zero time looking for her ball. 

There are many reasons for slow play:

On public courses - Forget the handicap system. The average golfer shoots around 100-110. The average golfer doesn't spend a lot of time practicing. The average golfer tries to kill the ball. Golf is played by people of all skill levels on the same course. @Lihu said that the culprits seem to be lack of direction and taking too long to putt.

If greens are too fast and there is a threat of 4 putting every hole, it will slow down play. Better golfers won't be affected, but your average golfer will freak. So on public golf courses a compromise needs to be reached. Many teaching pros I've spoken with agree that a stimp about 9 would work best.

Another issue is the lack of direction - I assume he means inability to control where the ball goes. This will be magnified with the driver. The average golfer will tend to slice the ball. Instead of shaming guys for playing up on the forward tees or "ladies tees" the average golfer should probably leave the driver and even fairway woods in the bag and play the course with their irons from the forward tees or senior tees. Chances are they'd score better simply because the ball would be kept on the short grass, and they'd play faster because the ball would in all likelihood stay out of trouble.

I mean is it better to get bogeys playing like that or triple bogeys because you have to drop a ball in the rough and take a two stroke penalty because you lost one in the woods? Remember weekend golfers don't play provisional balls. They'll look for that one the hit into the next county.

But it's not fun to play like that. You're not playing like the guys on TV. 

So I voted yes - white tees or shorter with no HC card. Tees based on handicap.

 

Julia

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I voted "no". Higher hdcps pay the same as the lower hdcps. Why discriminate on how they spend their money. 

I try to play the tees that best fit my driver distance. If I am looking at a  450 yard par 4, I play the tees that will allow my drive to get me at least 60% - 65% of the way to the pin. I usually look to see what the longest par 4 is on the course, and make my decision from there. 

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14 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

@dave s Your wife does't hit the ball that far. Despite shooting 100-110, her ball is almost always in play unless she dunks it in a water hazard. She spends zero time looking for her ball. 

There are many reasons for slow play:

On public courses - Forget the handicap system. The average golfer shoots around 100-110. The average golfer doesn't spend a lot of time practicing. The average golfer tries to kill the ball. Golf is played by people of all skill levels on the same course. @Lihu said that the culprits seem to be lack of direction and taking too long to putt.

If greens are too fast and there is a threat of 4 putting every hole, it will slow down play. Better golfers won't be affected, but your average golfer will freak. So on public golf courses a compromise needs to be reached. Many teaching pros I've spoken with agree that a stimp about 9 would work best.

Another issue is the lack of direction - I assume he means inability to control where the ball goes. This will be magnified with the driver. The average golfer will tend to slice the ball. Instead of shaming guys for playing up on the forward tees or "ladies tees" the average golfer should probably leave the driver and even fairway woods in the bag and play the course with their irons from the forward tees or senior tees. Chances are they'd score better simply because the ball would be kept on the short grass, and they'd play faster because the ball would in all likelihood stay out of trouble.

I mean is it better to get bogeys playing like that or triple bogeys because you have to drop a ball in the rough and take a two stroke penalty because you lost one in the woods? Remember weekend golfers don't play provisional balls. They'll look for that one the hit into the next county.

But it's not fun to play like that. You're not playing like the guys on TV. 

So I voted yes - white tees or shorter with no HC card. Tees based on handicap.

 

What I meant is not lack of accuracy. I know plenty of inaccurate players who still know exactly what to do to keep up pace of play. I meant people who meander aimlessly in their carts driving back and forth without any purpose. Waiting for four people to select their clubs, setup and shoot one at a time in a random order, etc. This happens a lot more than people think.

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23 minutes ago, Lihu said:

From what I've read about her, she would likely be the one cussing out the slow players in front. :-D

"Normal pace" is not the same for all golfers. What's fast for some, is slow for others, and vice versa.

My take on slow play is that what ever pace I get to play at is fine with me. I am golfing, and thats all that matters. 

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I'm pretty quick going down the fairway. I've got my club ready and I'm waiting for others to hit. I'll cop to being slow as molasses on the green. I was trying to leave myself with a very short putt.

Julia

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8 minutes ago, DrvFrShow said:

I'm pretty quick going down the fairway. I've got my club ready and I'm waiting for others to hit. I'll cop to being slow as molasses on the green. I was trying to leave myself with a very short putt.

Right, you're a fast higher handicap player. Seems like you should play any tees you want. Putting faster might be nice, but generally, if you are not slow at both of these, it's not too bad. What I find funny is those that take 4 or 5 shots to get on a par 4 green and feel a need to spend an additional 10 minutes on the green to make up for it.

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2 hours ago, Lihu said:

Just guessing that you encountered some slow play yesterday? ;-)

No have only played 4 times this year. 

It varies course to course but the ones here that recommend tees for handicap are tough. The back tees make landing zones a precise target just doesn't accommodate poor shots. 

It would create slow play due to ball hunting and brutal approach shots trying to recover. But those too far back there would be fine on less technical courses. 

I don't think golf is fun if it's torture. Don't care if it's fast or slow. But if my bad shots meant never sniffing par I wouldn't play. It's the struggle not the pace I think lesser skilled players should minimize. 

Dave :-)

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1 minute ago, Dave2512 said:

No have only played 4 times this year. 

It varies course to course but the ones here that recommend tees for handicap are tough. The back tees make landing zones a precise target just doesn't accommodate poor shots. 

It would create slow play due to ball hunting and brutal approach shots trying to recover. But those too far back there would be fine on less technical courses. 

I don't think golf is fun if it's torture. Don't care if it's fast or slow. But if my bad shots took meant never sniffing par I wouldn't play. It's the struggle not the pace I think lesser skilled players should minimize. 

Those courses are tough. My typical practice is to play whatever I feel like will make for an enjoyable day.

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"I'm hitting the woods just great, but I'm having a terrible time getting out of them." ~Harry Toscano

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It doesn't look like a yes vote carries any weight.   When  I voted there were no "yes" votes but after reading these posts, several including myself voted yes.

From the land of perpetual cloudiness.   I'm Denny

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I am a mid handicapper, but fairly athletic build and I can drive the ball 270 yards. On occasion I enjoy playing from the tips, it challenges me. But I compensate by playing ready golf, being cautious about taking no more than 2 practice swings, walking quickly between shots and not looking for a ball for more than 30-45 seconds. I have never had any complaints about my pace of play. 

That being said, if I am playing on a week end and the course is crowded, I will stick to the members tees. The key is that players are conscious of the pace of play and let you play through when they are slowing you down. It is just part of being respectful of your fellow golfers. If that is the case, let people enjoy themselves and do as they please, I say!

People who routinely take 6 practice swings, walk slowly between shots, look for their balls for 5 minutes and measure each putt 3 times, only to go on to hit 110... those should be banned altogether! No matter what tees they play from! 

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I think that this is really just a judgement call that could vary from course to course. I feel that if we are talking about a challenging public course that gets a lot of traffic, AND has a noticeable change in yardage when playing from the tips, I wouldn't mind seeing maybe a weekend rule that says you have to be a certain handicap to play the blues.

However, I feel that pace of play is the only thing that you could weigh this on. If it's an open day on the course and some high handicappers want to experiment with their games from the tips, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to, that is as long as they are respectful. Of course there are exceptions like on St. Andrews or other prestigious PGA courses, but for the majority of clubs in the world, I say there are much better ways to police pace of play.

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I voted "no" mainly because if limiting play to certain tees was enforced, we may as well ban certain levels of handicap from playing during certain hours and days. Within reason everyone should be able to play whatever tee they want and if they hold up play, boot their asses off the course.

I can see some restrictions where a course has a true championship set of tees (e.g. Torrey Pines South).  There are very few golfers who would not feel tested enough from the normal back tees (7,051 yards, 75.3/137) and demand the opportunity to play the tips (7,628 yards, 78.2/144).  It makes sense to prevent the handful of fools who would insist on playing from 7,628 yards and ask for only very skilled players to use those tees.

Brian Kuehn

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A couple observations worth mentioning. 

In our sorted by handicap league flights are assigned tees by handicap. When the scores count the men can't get to the middle tees fast enough. During the week I see them back. That tells me golfers understand they score better up. 

When I play with strangers the most common miss is short. Last time I played I had a father/son ask to join me on the first tee. I was waiting on the box as a single. 

They discussed what tee to play from and decided on tips. Only one GIR and resulting par in 18 holes between the two of them. This course isn"t crazy long but sneaky long at 6500 yds because it's par 71. The one GIR was a lucky shot from beyond the 200 yd marker on a par 5 with a roller fairway wood miss. 

It didn't appear they enjoyed their day of golf. It was constant scrambling. They were scrambling for bogey 50 yds out. It was silly just hit ball and find it no real course strategy. The only par the kid made was a high five achievement for them. Why not move up and have more fun? 

 

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Dave :-)

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36 minutes ago, Dave2512 said:

A couple observations worth mentioning. 

In our sorted by handicap league flights are assigned tees by handicap. When the scores count the men can't get to the middle tees fast enough. During the week I see them back. That tells me golfers understand they score better up. 

When I play with strangers the most common miss is short. Last time I played I had a father/son ask to join me on the first tee. I was waiting on the box as a single. 

They discussed what tee to play from and decided on tips. Only one GIR and resulting par in 18 holes between the two of them. This course isn"t crazy long but sneaky long at 6500 yds because it's par 71. The one GIR was a lucky shot from beyond the 200 yd marker on a par 5 with a roller fairway wood miss. 

It didn't appear they enjoyed their day of golf. It was constant scrambling. They were scrambling for bogey 50 yds out. It was silly just hit ball and find it no real course strategy. The only par the kid made was a high five achievement for them. Why not move up and have more fun? 

 

Not everyone cares about their scores. As long as they keep the pace to insure others enjoy their games as well, it doesn't really matter if they shoot 68 or 128.

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I have to say "No" even though I think it is pointless to see the whole course when you're shooting 115.  The reason I say no is because it would assume that everybody has maintains a handicap or has to in order to play the tees they want to play.  I play, on and off, with a variety of other golfers. .some good ones and some long hitters, too.  Nobody I know has an actual handicap, though.  I don't have one and unless I decide to start entering handicap tournaments, I can't see me ever having one.

There's no good, fair way to "qualify" golfers for certain tees, in my opinion. 

Also, the problem is really pace.  If a guy wants to shoot 250 and sprint from shot to shot . .I don't care.  I would rather see the enforcement effort go towards actual offenders of pace-of-play . .ie - time clocks, marshal intervention, etc. 

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