Male Scratch Golfer on the LPGA Tour

[9iron]

There's no rough, so… no. They don't take the mowers to it Sunday evening.

Yeah, isn't it interesting that they have the women play their Open at the same venue as the men in the one year where they will play a course with literally no rough? Not at Merion, or Oakmont, or Winged Foot or any other course that is truly going to require physical strength i.e. the real difference between men and women, to get back in play. Hmmm.

[Slice of Life]

Yeah, isn't it interesting that they have the women play their Open at the same venue as the men in the one year where they will play a course with literally no rough? Not at Merion, or Oakmont, or Winged Foot or any other course that is truly going to require physical strength i.e. the real difference between men and women, to get back in play. Hmmm.

They would just chop the rough way down for the LPGA anyway. It would take some of them 3 shots to get back into the fairway otherwise.

[iacas]

If we are talking a true Scratch male golfer, who can go anywhere and shoot par for the course or better....   then yes i give him a very good chance at being in the top 50 or better of the LPGA.....

Just remember that's not the "true scratch male golfer." The true scratch male golfer will shoot the course rating ten times out of twenty (on average) and his other half of the scores will probably be relatively close, but all higher.

From 6500 yards I'll throw out that most courses are about 68.x to 69.x. So I imagine his scoring average might be 71.5. That's top 40 on the LPGA.

I'd give him a good chance of winning a tournament and being a top 20 player....

I'm not really willing to go that far. If you took a scratch golfer NOW and gave him a year to prepare and a caddie and all that, then he might become that, but he'd also become a +1 or +2 or something.

I think the one thing to his dis-advantage is if he is hitting from where the ladies hit.... his distance could hurt him.... Since he is most likely use to playing from the tips at every course....  But even then, he could probably ditch the driver and just use his 3wood, and bag another Wedge or hybrid......

Or just bang away and have 8-irons into par fives most of the women can't even reach.

Hmmm...That's not what "a true Scratch male golfer" is. Plenty of courses have course ratings well above par and a scratch golfer could theoretically stay scratch and NEVER shoot par on those courses.

Not from the 6500-yard tees they don't.

[Pretzel]

I think it's an interesting premise, and I wonder if there's a reason for why putting and short game appear to be not as good as on the PGA tour. Since the shots from close in aren't dictated by distance as much, since everyone can choose any club from around the green, why does it seem like they get up and down less often when watching?

Another interesting point to add is that Phil Michelson, the PGA leader for Putting Average, is at around 30 putts per round while the woman's leader is at 28 putts. Could this have anything to do with possibly hitting more wedges into par 5's due to their lack of distance. Also, the women's leader for GIR is 75.7%, which is a large lead over the men's leader at 71.57%. Again, could this be due to hitting more par 5's, or possibly slower greens that are easier to stick?

Perhaps the most telling statistic in the bunch is Scoring Average. The men, even under arguably tougher conditions for their skill levels, have a leading scoring average of 68.886 compared to 69.700 on the women's side. There are only 3 women whose average score is in the 60's, whereas you have 18 men who average under 70.

Could this simply be a product of competition breeding more successful individuals?

[mchepp]

The ladies recently played my buddies club that I have played a bunch. They played the blue tees which has a course rating of 71.5 or something close to that. The par was 72. The rough was not very high and the greens were not extremely fast. The course was set for low scoring. I think rounds of even par each day would have struggled to make the cut.

The issue I have with this comparison is that handicap as the USGA has set it up is potential. So the scratch golfer has to play one of his better rounds to even shoot even par. So it he averages 73-74 then he is going to miss the cut. Now if he is a scratch golfer from the black tees at that course then moves up to the blues then his potential becomes +1 +2 and I think he can make the cut, not win, but make the cut.

[iacas]

The issue I have with this comparison is that handicap as the USGA has set it up is potential. So the scratch golfer has to play one of his better rounds to even shoot even par. So it he averages 73-74 then he is going to miss the cut. Now if he is a scratch golfer from the black tees at that course then moves up to the blues then his potential becomes +1 +2 and I think he can make the cut, not win, but make the cut.

No, he doesn't. The course rating is not 72.0 on every par 72 course. On many courses, the tees at 6500 yards are rated 68.6 or something.

[David in FL]

No, he doesn't. The course rating is not 72.0 on every par 72 course. On many courses, the tees at 6500 yards are rated 68.6 or something.

Not to argue, but I've got to think that most of the courses with the quality to attract an LPGA event would be a little tougher than that.  At least I'd hope so.  I generally play around 6,600 yards or so.  Most are rated in the 71ish range.  Very few 72 or higher, but in looking, I can't find any this past year under about 70.5 either.

Again though.....courses of a high enough quality to attract the lady pros.  Not the local muni.....

I still think most (not necessarily all) honest scratch golfers make some kind of living on the LPGA tour.  The only way they make a living on any men's tour is if they're carrying a bag!

[Wisguy]

I'd encourage some of you sneering at LPGA players to go to an LPGA tournament the next time one is nearby. Some of the criticisms are definitely true - they take too damn long having their caddies line up every putt for them, and those having a bad round are likely to be playing much worse golf than a typical PGA player who's not going to make the cut. However, follow one of the last half dozen groups on a Saturday or Sunday and you are likely to see some sensational shots, ones that most male scratch golfers are not going to be able to pull off. At the 2012 US Women's Open, I watched Na Yeon Choi and Amy Yang hit hybrids to clear a creek surrounding the front of the green over 200 yards out, both dropping their shots closer to the pin than most of the people on this board would likely hit with a wedge from half that range. I am confident that not a single person on this board could have pulled off that shot more than once in five, maybe ten times and most would have put their balls into the creek. I took my daughter to a local kids event this summer featuring Sherry Steinhauer and even the course's assistant pros (guys half her age) were looking enviously at her hitting balls on the range, commenting "That's a beautiful swing." LPGA golf is a lot more comparable to the men's game and a lot more entertaining than, say, Div. I women's basketball compared to Div. 1 men's basketball. There are some guys on this board who express contempt and bitterness toward LPGA players that seems unjustified and rather puzzling. Maybe one of you guys posted after getting home from a blind date that ended suddenly after the woman got a mid-date call from her "sister" and she had to end the date early because "her mom is sick" or another one of you stomped off to his laptop after his significant other asked "I know it is supposed to happen to all guys occasionally, but is it supposed to happen this often?" I really don't understand the urge some of you have to bash female golfers. I guess when I was a kid my mom gave me enough praise and hugs so I don't feel a need to cop a Taliban-like attitude toward women.

[Slice of Life]

Not to argue, but I've got to think that most of the courses with the quality to attract an LPGA event would be a little tougher than that.  At least I'd hope so.  I generally play around 6,600 yards or so.  Most are rated in the 71ish range.  Very few 72 or higher, but in looking, I can't find any this past year under about 70.5 either.

I think one of the things that attracts the LPGA is the ability for the golfers to score well and boost ratings.

[Dave2512]

Only one of the 6500 yd courses I play has a sub 70 rating and it is just under. A few are 71.x in the 6580 range and one really tough course 70.x listed at 6400 yds that is typically setup shorter than scorecard distance. That's in CO with the altitude factored in for effective playing length. To get into the 68 range gets total yardage down to 6k here. They played one up from the back at CO Golf Club for the Solheim Cup rated 74.5/143.

[mchepp]

No, he doesn't. The course rating is not 72.0 on every par 72 course. On many courses, the tees at 6500 yards are rated 68.6 or something.

For the course they played the yardage is 6380 par 71 for the men at the course rating from that tee is 71.1. For the ladies they convert a par 4 to a 5 and so the par is 72. From the Black tees the course is 6823 par is 71 and the course rating is 73.2.

For the record though, I think the course rating is slightly inflated. I have played tougher courses with a lower rating.

[iacas]

Again though.....courses of a high enough quality to attract the lady pros.  Not the local muni.....

I've seen a few lower than that, but okay: let's say it's 70.5 on average. I still think the guy makes most cuts. The gap between the top players and the bottom (and even the middle) on the LPGA is quite significant.

I'd encourage some of you sneering at LPGA players to go to an LPGA tournament the next time one is nearby.

FWIW, I've been to several. Coached a few LPGA players a few days as well.

At the 2012 US Women's Open, I watched Na Yeon Choi and Amy Yang hit hybrids to clear a creek surrounding the front of the green over 200 yards out, both dropping their shots closer to the pin than most of the people on this board would likely hit with a wedge from half that range.

Most of the people on this forum aren't scratch golfers. I've also seen LPGA players hitting hybrids from 150 yards, so…

I am confident that not a single person on this board could have pulled off that shot more than once in five, maybe ten times and most would have put their balls into the creek.

You can be confident all you want. I could do it. Dave could do it. Mike could do it.

And even if you were right (you're not), what did "unknown player X" do from 200 yards out? Keeping your LPGA card wouldn't mean beating Suzann Pettersen or Yani Tseng or Inbee Park every week.

I really don't understand the urge some of you have to bash female golfers.

I haven't seen any bashing of female golfers.

[wils5150]

a scratch player would make a living as a caddy on the lpga tour that's the only consistent check they would get. And the comment about them hitting a hybrid from 150 yards I say who cares if they knock it stiff.

[Slice of Life]

a scratch player would make a living as a caddy on the lpga tour that's the only consistent check they would get. And the comment about them hitting a hybrid from 150 yards I say who cares if they knock it stiff.

Then what are they hitting from 180? A 3 wood? I'd say a lot of them "care".

[rehmwa]

I really don't understand the urge some of you have to bash female golfers. I guess when I was a kid my mom gave me enough praise and hugs so I don't feel a need to cop a Taliban-like attitude toward women.

that actually was a pretty nice tirade - go get 'em

[David in FL]

that actually was a pretty nice tirade - go get 'em

Methinks he doth protest too much......

.....gotta be some baggage there.

[Jeremie Boop]

I may have missed something as I read the first few pages then skipped to the last page, but I don't think anyone really "bashed" on the LPGA players, just was being pointed out that given the length advantage the typical scratch male golfer would have and the very large disparity between top players and bottom players on the LPGA tour would make it possible for him to keep his card on that tour. The logic and points are very much valid, though we know it'd never be something that we could see really happen.

On a side note:

I wonder what would happen if some guy really did push to be allowed to compete on the LPGA tour. The PGA has allowed females to compete on occasion so it seems only fair that they reciprocate right? They could even allow some amateur men try to qualify for certain events, that would be neat to see.

[wils5150]

Then what are they hitting from 180? A 3 wood? I'd say a lot of them "care".

and I am saying it shouldnt matter what the hit for a club if they can hit it close. the card show how many not how.