The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[nevets88]

Not sure if it's the camera angle, but it doesn't look like it. Look at how far the hands are away from the body post impact. Why does it look like there's so much separation?

[michaeljames92]

Seems to have a CF release going on, which tends to bring the low point backwards. This is why the club extends down and to the right while the club re cocks and you can see that gap(think lucas glover). S&T; teaches an inline release I believe which is in between a CF and CP release. A CP release is where the hands go well left after impact, keeping the hands tracing the circle(look at swings of sam snead). That will push the swing bottom forward slightly and with a straighter starting line and less curve.

Originally Posted by nevets88

Not sure if it's the camera angle, but it doesn't look like it. Look at how far the hands are away from the body post impact. Why does it look like there's so much separation?

[mvmac]

Nice post Mike.  Yeah, kind of a Rickie Fowler type release.  Does hit the exit though

[michaeljames92]

Would I be correct in saying that guys who tend to CP it, shift their baseline left and hence tend to slight fade it?

Originally Posted by mvmac

Nice post Mike.  Yeah, kind of a Rickie Fowler type release.  Does hit the exit though

[iacas]

Originally Posted by michaeljames92

Would I be correct in saying that guys who tend to CP it, shift their baseline left and hence tend to slight fade it?

Not really. A "CP release" (not the full swing, just the release) IS an "inline" release. It's on the plane. CP isn't really "under" or "left" of the plane. S&T; is a lot closer to an inline/CP release than a CF release (ideally).

[michaeljames92]

Was looking at Michael Sim's swing from this years Players championship. Backswing looks great, on the downswing he loses connection and looks like he could get his hips further forward too. Thoughts?

[The_Pharaoh]

I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this, however I didn't want to start another thread on an S&T; matter.

For those of you teaching S&T;, have you had any problems with students shanking? Although I do not teach full S&T; as I am not fully comfortable with it myself, I have introduced parts of the method (as let's be honest here, it works) into my teaching. Normally, I can get a slicer to start hitting a little draw within a few balls simply by telling them to put and keep their weight on their left leg throughout the swing, handle forward, clubface slightly open relative to the target, straighten right knee on backswing and don't rotate right hand over left at impact. However, recently one of my students, who used to be a chronic slicer and is now drawing the ball, has started shanking. For those of you teaching S&T; or using S&T;, what have you found is the typical reason for happening all of a sudden?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

I'm not sure if this is the right place to put this, however I didn't want to start another thread on an S&T; matter.

For those of you teaching S&T;, have you had any problems with students shanking? Although I do not teach full S&T; as I am not fully comfortable with it myself, I have introduced parts of the method (as let's be honest here, it works) into my teaching. Normally, I can get a slicer to start hitting a little draw within a few balls simply by telling them to put and keep their weight on their left leg throughout the swing, handle forward, clubface slightly open relative to the target, straighten right knee on backswing and don't rotate right hand over left at impact. However, recently one of my students, who used to be a chronic slicer and is now drawing the ball, has started shanking. For those of you teaching S&T; or using S&T;, what have you found is the typical reason for happening all of a sudden?

As you know there are only two reasons for a shank. One is that the path is to the left and the club head can't get "left" fast enough. The other is that the path is to the right and the club gets right too fast.

As for the specific causes, there are almost too many to list. Weight towards the toes or heels can both cause shanks. Head movement forward or back (relative to ball) can cause them. Etc.

But no, we haven't seen any more shanks than normal - or been unable to fix them quickly - among our students.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by iacas

As you know there are only two reasons for a shank. One is that the path is to the left and the club head can't get "left" fast enough. The other is that the path is to the right and the club gets right too fast.

As for the specific causes, there are almost too many to list. Weight towards the toes or heels can both cause shanks. Head movement forward or back (relative to ball) can cause them. Etc.

But no, we haven't seen any more shanks than normal - or been unable to fix them quickly - among our students.

Thanks Erik. It's only now and then as he usually hits a draw. However, recently he's developed a shank. His path is from the inside, because when he's hitting the ball solidly his misses are either pushes or over-draws. When the shank appears (or poor contact), I'm convinced it's because he is releasing the club face by rotating his right hand over his left through impact which occasionally sends the path to the outside and across the ball.

I was simply wondering if you had seen this sort of thing with your students going from slicers to drawers of the golf ball.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by The_Pharaoh

Thanks Erik. It's only now and then as he usually hits a draw. However, recently he's developed a shank. His path is from the inside, because when he's hitting the ball solidly his misses are either pushes or over-draws. When the shank appears (or poor contact), I'm convinced it's because he is releasing the club face by rotating his right hand over his left through impact which occasionally sends the path to the outside and across the ball.

I was simply wondering if you had seen this sort of thing with your students going from slicers to drawers of the golf ball.

Nope, we really haven't. He'd probably do well to maintain his pressure points (specifically under his right arm).

[SpannersReady]

I recently had a stack and tilt lesson. It has all the same red flags and BS as an alternative medicine such as chiropractic or acupuncture. I don't really know much about golf science but this smacked of quackery

[iacas]

Originally Posted by SpannersReady

I recently had a stack and tilt lesson.

It has all the same red flags and BS as an alternative medicine such as chiropractic or acupuncture. I don't really know much about golf science but this smacked of quackery

Curious why you'd say that. Your lesson was with whom? What did you work on?

In the end, this may not be the thread for you:

Originally Posted by iacas

This thread is for the discussion of the pattern: parts you find difficult, information about the pieces, the ball flight, the terms they use (most of which are TGM), etc. It's a place where people can get help with the pattern if they've adopted it or get information from others who have adopted it for those who are interested.

[johnclayton1982]

I hope this doesn't hijack the thread, but I read the book, and one of the best things I came away from it was their steps to build a solid golf game:

1.  Consistent Contact

2.  Develop Power to play the courses / tees you want

3.  Accuracy

That really helped me get better.  Its too hard to do all three at once.  If you take a month and work on consistent contact, then two months and work on lagging the clubhead and swinging freely, then a couple months on accuracy, you can really improve.  I really liked how they made consistent contact the bottom line building block of their golf "method", which really made sense to me.  After these three are pretty good, I'd add "#4. Short Game".  Working on these things in this order really helped me break 80.  So, I think the overview of the method is really well laid out in the book, even if the actual mechanics of the swing arn't used (although the left shoulder dropping instead of just turning horizontally is genius).

[jwalker497]

Wrist cock is something that confuses me when it comes to S&T.;  Not sure how it relates to the Flying Wedge they preach

[michaeljames92]

You try to maintain the angle in your right wrist through impact(well at least enough) so you can hit the ball solidly. This also helps the club travel on a slight in to out path to help you draw it.

Originally Posted by jwalker497

Wrist cock is something that confuses me when it comes to S&T.;  Not sure how it relates to the Flying Wedge they preach

[jwalker497]

SO you should cock them in the backswing and not release on the downswing?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by jwalker497

SO you should cock them in the backswing and not release on the downswing?

Not quite. Cock them in the backswing, wait a long time to uncock them in the downswing.

Note that wrist cock is not necessarily in the same dimension as the flying wedge. They're rarely less than about 45 degrees out of plane and often up to 90 degrees out of plane. From address, wrist cock makes the clubhead move up, and flying wedge (increasing it) makes it move to the right.

[The_Pharaoh]

Having re-read the S&T; book this weekend and watching the Taly Mind training device videos on the www, I gave the flying wedge a go on the course today. I was either crushing it with a little draw or hitting a weak push-fade. I just couldn't put my finger on why such extremes. Does the weak push-fade come from my left arm disconnecting from my torso on the downswing, pushing the path too much out to the right? The hardest part about the flying wedge is knowing when to release it.