The Stack and Tilt Golf Swing

[keb]

Originally Posted by iacas

FWIW, I prefer to hit the ball lower by remaining in flexion more. Tuck the butt a bit less.

Moving the ball back isn't really a good thing, and "trying to palmar flex more or lean the shaft forward more" can cause problems. Too much shaft lean isn't as efficient as "the right amount of shaft lean."

Of course, if you're flipping at it a little and adding loft that way, then yeah, "more shaft lean" is a good thing. ;-)

So what is the the right amount of shaft lean?

[mvmac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

Who teaches Brad Faxon? Does he use Aimpoint too?

Faxon, stable axis

[Stretch]

If he keeps hitting the ball solid, we'll have to retire the expression "Faxon par" -- ie. three shots to get on the green then a 20-footer straight down the drain.

[The_Pharaoh]

Originally Posted by mvmac

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevets88

Who teaches Brad Faxon? Does he use Aimpoint too?

Faxon, stable axis

Shame he had to mention "they get a bad rap". That interview was the perfect opportunity to praise them to the hilt.

[nevets88]

At P2 and P6, the distance of the hands from the body/right thigh, should they necessarily be the same or can they differ?

I looked at a couple of swings on YouTube and see instances of both. For instance Charlie Wi's hands is a bit farther at P6 than P2. Some other SnT swings distance is the same.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by nevets88

At P2 and P6, the distance of the hands from the body/right thigh, should they necessarily be the same or can they differ?

I looked at a couple of swings on YouTube and see instances of both. For instance Charlie Wi's hands is a bit farther at P6 than P2. Some other SnT swings distance is the same.

Really? You see the distances as the same?

It's generally best not to gauge one moving part based on another moving part in this way. The right hip and leg move. I've drawn lines showing where the butt of the club is at P2 and P6 in several swings here, and you'll find they ALL have one thing in common.

And I don't see any swings where the position relative to the right leg is the same. Some are closer than others... some have also slid their hips farther forward.

[nevets88]

Originally Posted by iacas

Really? You see the distances as the same?

It's generally best not to gauge one moving part based on another moving part in this way. The right hip and leg move. I've drawn lines showing where the butt of the club is at P2 and P6 in several swings here, and you'll find they ALL have one thing in common.

And I don't see any swings where the position relative to the right leg is the same. Some are closer than others... some have also slid their hips farther forward.

Sorry for the confusion, I didn't express myself well. I totally agree with you on your point. I meant from a down the line view, if you drew a horizontal line from the hands to the body.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by nevets88

Sorry for the confusion, I didn't express myself well. I totally agree with you on your point. I meant from a down the line view, if you drew a horizontal line from the hands to the body.

Oh, down the line? Yeah that can vary but it's just the downswing plane being different than the shaft plane at P2. It's almost always higher... but shouldn't ever really be above the elbow plane, of course.

So backswing plane = shaft plane (to P2 at least)

Downswing plane = somewhere between shaft and elbow plane (from P4 to P7 and beyond, ideally)

[boogielicious]

Thanks for the pictures Erik.  I noticed that a lot of the players in the photos have their head drop between these two positions.  You discussed this in another thread, but these pictures help make the point.  My head drops somewhat, but this has never been brought up as an issue in my Evolr lessons.

[nevets88]

Originally Posted by iacas

Oh, down the line? Yeah that can vary but it's just the downswing plane being different than the shaft plane at P2. It's almost always higher... but shouldn't ever really be above the elbow plane, of course.

So backswing plane = shaft plane (to P2 at least)

Downswing plane = somewhere between shaft and elbow plane (from P4 to P7 and beyond, ideally)

Thanks. The photos you posted was fun to look at - the Woods progression is interesting - it looks like as his career progressed, the green line moved to the right for P2.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by nevets88

Thanks. The photos you posted was fun to look at - the Woods progression is interesting - it looks like as his career progressed, the green line moved to the right for P2.

Butch Harmon is very big on "width".... ;-)

[mvmac]

I gave Erik a thumbs up for that post!  Didn't know you could load that many Analyzr screenshots

[nevets88]

So I fired up Analyzer and compared the shaft plane, elbow plane, back/downswing planes of different players.

One thing I noticed about Sergio Garcia - his downswing plane matches his shaft plane at impact. Or am I mistaken? Most players I am seeing their swing plane is above shaft plane at impact.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by nevets88

So I fired up Analyzer and compared the shaft plane, elbow plane, back/downswing planes of different players.

One thing I noticed about Sergio Garcia - his downswing plane matches his shaft plane at impact. Or am I mistaken? Most players I am seeing their swing plane is above shaft plane at impact.

Sounds about right.

Obviously you can change your shaft plane by simply setting up differently. If you set up with a little more uncocked wrists, that will mean a steeper "shaft plane" at setup. Sergio does a bit of that. There are of course other things you can do as well. Just saying be careful when looking at that. Heck, Moe Norman types would have a shaft and elbow plane as one and the same.

[Dr_Fu_Manchu]

I am plagued by a deflective draw that I cannot seem to fix. I've tried adding more side tilt, tried getting my hands down faster, and have tried rehinging more quickly. It's my miss, which I only hit about 30% of the time with the rest being push draws. Any drills or feels that anyone can suggest?

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by Dr_Fu_Manchu

I am plagued by a deflective draw that I cannot seem to fix. I've tried adding more side tilt, tried getting my hands down faster, and have tried rehinging more quickly. It's my miss, which I only hit about 30% of the time with the rest being push draws. Any drills or feels that anyone can suggest?

The only thing I can think of is to post your swing. Your question is pretty specific, so a video clip, I would think, would be required before anyone could answer, although I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by iacas

FWIW, I prefer to hit the ball lower by remaining in flexion more. Tuck the butt a bit less.

Originally Posted by nevets88

Quick question on hitting the ball low. I tried moving the ball forward and closing the face but I tend to hit pull draws although they are lower.

But I prefer to hit the ball a little lower, like 20-30 ft and I find that back in the stance with face open works for me. Does that make sense?

Just going back to this for a second, I was thinking recently of the old school tip of just take more club, choking down, and using more of a 3/4 punch swing. Is this a good consistent strategy of keeping it lower, or would the potential added roll not be ideal?

[michaeljames92]

Deflected draw? Do you mean it starts right and over draws? or starts straight and draws away from target. Often a good cure for the over draw is keep the left arm connected to the chest a lot better. Helped fix my push too.

Originally Posted by Dr_Fu_Manchu

I am plagued by a deflective draw that I cannot seem to fix. I've tried adding more side tilt, tried getting my hands down faster, and have tried rehinging more quickly. It's my miss, which I only hit about 30% of the time with the rest being push draws. Any drills or feels that anyone can suggest?

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Dr_Fu_Manchu

I am plagued by a deflective draw that I cannot seem to fix. I've tried adding more side tilt, tried getting my hands down faster, and have tried rehinging more quickly. It's my miss, which I only hit about 30% of the time with the rest being push draws. Any drills or feels that anyone can suggest?

By deflected you mean a straight draw or even a pull draw? Or do you mean a push-overdraw? Different fixes, so you'll want to be careful there.