Way to step up Massachusetts

[Lefty-Golfer]

I don't believe it is coming. There are enough Demcrats who need to run in november that can see a sinking ship. I think it is dead.

That being said i am willing to discuss some form of reform...the industry and the costs are insane(i own a business and pay health care for 105 empolyees). Having Washington run it and pay for it is just not the solution. Not now and not ever.

[Shanks A Million]

I don't believe it is coming. There are enough Demcrats who need to run in november that can see a sinking ship. I think it is dead.

Yeah, probably. Meanwhile, I'm stuck with paying $3,500 a year for pills, and $200 to see a doctor for 15 minutes. If you don't have insurance (and 50 million Americans don't), you actually have to pay more.

The United States is the only modern western country that doesn't have a healthcare system. We're very unusual in that respect. What's funny is that we pay more than anyone for healthcare, $7,290 per capita. What's amazing, is that we also pay the 3rd most in taxes for healthcare. You read that right, we pay more tax for healthcare costs than any country but Iceland and Germany. Healthcare costs make up 16% of our GDP, 2nd highest on earth (behind Guam). Most people don't realize that the state is forced to pay the healthcare costs racked up by medical bankruptcies. We pay for illegal immigrants as well. They have to go to the ER every time they have a problem, and we pay. These costs are astronomical . It's the stupidest system anywhere in the world. But we seem to think it's a good one, for some reason. Of all the industrial countries of the world, we have one of the highest infant mortality rates, one of the shortest life expectancies (worst infant mortality and shortest lifespan in the G8). This is one issue I think Americans just do not grasp. We have this crazy idea that Europeans all are covered by government healthcare plans. Not true. (Canada's system sucks. Canada has only one healthcare plan, the government run Medicare. This is very unusual.) Healthcare in other countries works exactly like the postal system here. Everyone pays a basic tax to fund the system. The people who use it pay a surcharge (usually a portion of income), and pay fees for use. Others use a private plan (like we can use DHL, UPS, Fed-Ex, etc.) Our shipping system works incredibly well. I get Netflix, in my mail every 3 days on the nose. Never late, never a hastle, just drop em in the mailbox and the new ones come a few days later. Now, if I don't like this system, I can go to UPS and ship through them. Easy. Healthcare is one issue I feel the United States is just abjectly wrong on.

[JetFan1983]

I voted for Kodos.

[Shanks A Million]

I voted for Kodos.

Kudos, but I voted for Kang.

[iacas]

Healthcare in other countries works exactly like the postal system here.

Great. The postal system loses money and has been considering not delivering mail on Saturdays for a few years now. Yippee!

[Fraser]

eh Fraser, what is your experience with the UK medical care? We here all kinds a shit here that it sucks and old people are left to die in the streets. Same with Canada. Seems hard to believe. What's your opinion?

Can't speak for Canada but to say people are left to die in the streets in the UK is utter nonsense.

My aunt (in her late 40s) had a severe stroke a few years back. She was hospitalized immediately and now has a full time, live-in carer. All covered under the NHS. My immediate family all had private health care (covered by my parent's employers) but I know enough people who work for, and have been served by the NHS and the system works well. Yes, there are some failings with the UK system, there are going to be with any healthcare system. My experiences with the US system are much poorer than the UK equivalent. The US system is run far too much like a business, ignoring those who need care. A few years back my wife was critically injured in a car accident and whilst the initial immediate care was excellent the rest of her recovery which was more dictated by her health insurance provider was next to abysmal. Their obligation to her ended as soon as it possibly could. Then there's the bureaucracy and paperwork...

[Fatphil]

morning Fraser...thanks for the input...sorry for the exaggeration...you basically confirmed what I suspected...I have a collegue...a Brit (green card) lived here for years...getting up in age...he is returning to England simply because he doesn't trust the US insurance system. Shame..he's a good guy and a very productive person.

eh Shanks A Million....I like your analogy to the postal system...best I've heard. Good job! (and from a homeboy at that!!) How 'bout Dolphin Stadium is now Sun Financial Stadium @ $5m/yr....A FREAKIN CANDADIAN INSURANCE COMPANY!!! I own my business also and I can find brilliant young MBA's willing to work for $175K/yr to replace a bunch of dickweed insurance pimps that rape in $10M/yr and then piss it away on football stadiums and Viagra ads.

I remember when a DHL next day was $50....then the USPS got in the game...now its $14. I fully believe the public option will drive costs into the ground...and as for tort reform...won't be necessary 'cause the lawyers don't have the time or resourses to sue (ie blackmail) the Feds.

[Bo the Golfer]

Didn't think I'd be the first Mass person to wiegh in three pages deep but whatever. Was a crazy few weeks up here. I am an independant(who isn't these days) and voted for Brown. Coakley is the AG up here and I made my decision based a lot on how she is in that roll. We have had a string of dirty pols up here and none have been ferreted out by her office. It's always the feds coming in to find out what is going on. I understand the feds have more resources but come on, come up with on dirty rep for your resume. Brown comes off like a regular guy and although I don't agree with all his stances he seems to have a common sense look at issues. The dems thought whoever they put up would be a shoo in and Coakley's campaign mirrored this as she took a couple of weeks of in the middle of it which Brown took full advantage of. The biggest factor for me was either side having a super majority in the senate. That is way to scary a thing to cede to either side.

[Lefty-Golfer]

Yeah, probably. Meanwhile, I'm stuck with paying $3,500 a year for pills, and $200 to see a doctor for 15 minutes. If you don't have insurance (and 50 million Americans don't), you actually have to pay more.

System is not perfect, I get it, no system is. I am willing to have discussions. Do you really believe the system railroaded through congress by Nancy, Harry and the rest of the Democratic crooks was good? With all the payouts, bribes, deferals and the rest?? do you really believe that? you seem like an intelligent person, there is no way you think that was going to work.

[Leftygolfer]

The bill isn't going to pass. I don't agree that the government does things well. Look at our postal service, it losses money every year. Does UPS or Fedex? Medicare/Medicaid fraud is rampid. Private insurance, it doesn't happen hardly at all (my wife works for an insurance company, I asked). When did a public project come in under budget and on time? Public schools are terrible for much of this country unless you buy in the right district.

[jamo]

The bill isn't going to pass. I don't agree that the government does things well. Look at our postal service, it losses money every year. Does UPS or Fedex?

Because if USPS charges more people would say that it is big government just reaching their hands into everybody's pockets again. If they charged what UPS and FedEx do, USPS would make money too.

[Leftygolfer]

Because if USPS charges more people would say that it is big government just reaching their hands into everybody's pockets again. If they charged what UPS and FedEx do, USPS would make money too.

????? They have raised the price of postage every year since I can remember. I don't ship alot of things so I can't confirm, but it is really that much more to use UPS or fed ex. I just bought something and they use UPS. Seems like they would go out of business if USPS prices are that much better (don't you think). Yeah they reach into my pocket, just from the other direction where I have no control. They just can't run things as well as the private sector. Don't deliver mail everyday, do something different if your lossing money.

[Fraser]

????? They have raised the price of postage every year since I can remember.

That's inflation for you

[jamo]

I remember when a DHL next day was $50....then the USPS got in the game...now its $14.

My point exactly.

????? They have raised the price of postage every year since I can remember. I don't ship alot of things so I can't confirm, but it is really that much more to use UPS or fed ex. I just bought something and they use UPS. Seems like they would go out of business if USPS prices are that much better (don't you think). Yeah they reach into my pocket, just from the other direction where I have no control. They just can't run things as well as the private sector. Don't deliver mail everyday, do something different if your lossing money.

[Leftygolfer]

That's inflation for you

25% in 5 years is a bit more than inflation. I can give you a great example of governments retardedness. The city of Cincinnati had a budget deficit this year. Not sure how much but 15 million or so. They counted on revenue that didn't happen and budgeted for this increase. One of there solutions is they raised bus rates. Now you might think that seems reasonable. But they don't take into account how many less people will take the bus now because of this increase. Do you think there revenue will increase?? I doubt it. When you raise the cost of something less people use it. Economics.

UPS, DHL, Fedex are all profitable businesses. USPS is not.

[GaijinGolfer]

Im not going to get into whether or not a republican getting elected in Mass is a good thing. (need I remind you all that the deregulation of the banks which the Republicans pushed for is what got our economy in the mess it is currently in?) I know that conversation wont end well. I will say though that if you guys think that it going to make any difference which political party is in office, Ive got news for you. It wont make a bit of difference.

[Leftygolfer]

It just did. The healthcare bill is dead. There was alot of laws that forced banks to make bad loans. There is plenty of blame to be spread around both sides of the isle.

[Shindig]

The bill isn't going to pass.

I think this is the only part of the bill you and I disagree on. One of the big problems that the Dems faced getting this passed was trying to do it without involving the GOP. Despite their nominal majority status, there were plenty of conservative Democrats who wouldn't sign on with the bill. Now, it looks like they may have to "compromise" with the GOP to get it passed; this doesn't usually entail removing their bad things from the bill, but rather adding the other party's bad ideas to it too. Such compromises may well get the conservative Democrats to sign on. In effect, the change in the Senate may have given this bill what it needs to pass. I'm not sure what else the GOP is looking for in such a bill... I think they passed a few of their own during the last administration.

See also: the old joke about bi-partisan meaning something worse-than-usual is being carried out.