What's up with arrogant clubmakers?

[Fourputt]

I don't know the whole story, but I can say that just saying something is made from carbon steel is pretty much saying nothing at all. There are dozens of carbon steel alloys, and depending on other alloying compounds and heat treating, they can have vastly different properties. You say that your regular guy doesn't bend CG 12's... maybe there is a reason for that. I don't know. I'm a retired machinist, not a metallurgist, but I do know that some carbon steel alloys can be very hard and brittle, while others are malleable. I've seen parts made from 4140 steel crack just from the heat treat process without even trying to bend them. I know that at one time, no clubmaker would try to bend a cast, cavity back clubhead because they were all considered to be too brittle for it.

Not saying that it excuses his reaction, but you got excited a bit quick on him too, as it seems to me.

[Randy4h]

I walk in, and here's the conversation as it unfolded, me, and the guy behind the counter:

How easy it would have had you, at this point, said: "OK, great. Here's what I need done."

You would have gotten your club bent, you would have avoided embarrassing yourself at the shop, you probably would have had a more pleasant day, you wouldn't have seen the need to insult the residents of the town, etc. etc.

[Quinn07]

I worked in the meat department of a grocery store for 10 years growing up and I know if someone questioned me about my "expertise" with cow, I wouldn't jump on them, I would have taken more joy in proving them wrong in politely explaining the situation. Reading through this thread it seems to me that most of the posters are taking the side of the shop dude. I personally think if he did jump on the customer like that then I have no problem with him telling him off. If you work in retail it's your job to be polite. I know there were some situations where I would get aggressive but there would have been a build up and the customer would have probably said some rude things first. You may have taken it a bit far, but hey if they aren't going to be put in the effort why should you? I have found that customer service isn't what it use to be and I am only 29.

If the guy doesn't know why the club is brittle then he should have just said that he's not sure but from experience they seem to break easier when bending.

[chilly]

I'd guess that by "leading" the guy with questions that you already knew about carbon steel and forged clubs was where you went wrong. I don't mind if a person "questions" me about an answer I've given, but if you ask a series of redundant questions for which you know the answer, just to lead up to making a point, I'd get annoyed as well.

[spitz20]

O

Well done sir, i would have done the same thing :)

[LBlack14]

Was it west of N. Andrews ave. between 4th st. and 13th st. over off of Sistrunk Blvd.? I used to live and work at AA Lock & Gun @ 407 N. Andrews Ave., up in that part it gets pretty seedy. Unless of course you're looking to buy crack cocaine. I stayed the hell out of that area if at all possible. No wonder they were nervous, I used to wear a plain view .357 magnum when I worked nights until 9PM in the shop.

Guys in those shops like ours are used to spending hrs a day getting your chops busted by people then they wouldn't but a thing, it gets old. Not saying you did anything to deserve that sort of treatment.

[Shanks A Million]

Was it west of N. Andrews ave. between 4th st. and 13th st. over off of Sistrunk Blvd.? I used to live and work at AA Lock & Gun @ 407 N. Andrews Ave., up in that part it gets pretty seedy. Unless of course you're looking to buy crack cocaine. I stayed the hell out of that area if at all possible. No wonder they were nervous, I used to wear a plain view .357 magnum when I worked nights until 9PM in the shop.

Nah, this was Linton and Millitary, a little strip mall by the mental health center there, Kings Point.

Yeah, bottom line, everyone I've told the story to orally and heard my tone of voice said the guy was a total ass. I wasn't questioning him with things I already knew, I only assumed the club was made from soft steel. I was curious as to why a softer carbon steel clubhead couldn't be bent, when I've always heard it was easier to bend soft clubs. So, I asked him why it was that clubmakers had trouble bending CG12s... Then he flew off the handle. He was waiting for a fight, it's painfully obvious.

[Shanks A Million]

You know what's ironic? I do a lot of concert sound reinforcement. You'd be amazed at the number of armchair producers that come over to the board and make asinine suggestions. Do you think I'd ever, in a million years, treat someone like that? I've had overaged hippies with tatoos and long hair come over and tell me that I should boost this or that frequency, and they have no idea they're talking to an educated musical savant who probably knows a bit about what he's doing...

Do you know what I do? I leave an open fader with nothing on it, and tweak it for them. That usually satisfies these people (obviously I made no changes). If I ever treated a person with so little respect, I'd probably lose the respect of my peers. And when people question my use of something or another, I answer their questions. Do you know how often a clear answer with a respectful and friendly tone gets them agreeing with me?

So, life lesson, even when someone treats you like dirt, don't lose your cool. Should I have told this guy to get bent? No. I really only made a very quiet and passive "f&%$ you" as I walked out, not like I said it right in his face. Bottom line, life is a lot easier when you give people the benefit of the doubt.

[TakeDeadAim]

From your comments about the store, seems to me you entered the shop prepared for a fight...

[FHopper]

Why are you going to a golf shop in the ghetto? Why is there a golf shop in the ghetto? I bet they have lots of used dead guy clubs.
Looking for delofted ?

Kings Point, FL

Palm Beach County
Population in July 2007: 13,550.
Males: 5,435 (40.1%)
Females: 8,115 (59.9%)

Median resident age: 77.7 years
Florida median age: 38.7 years

Zip codes: 33484.

Estimated median household income in 2008: $29,249 (it was $25,010 in 2000)
Kings Point: $29,249
Florida: $47,778

Estimated per capita income in 2008: $26,302

Estimated median house or condo value in 2008: $90,541 (it was $39,500 in 2000)
Kings Point: $90,541
Florida: $218,700

Mean prices in 2008: All housing units: $111,232; Detached houses: $200,386; Townhouses or other attached units: $135,039; In 2-unit structures: $88,803; In 3-to-4-unit structures: $70,734; In 5-or-more-unit structures: $112,323; Mobile homes: $48,478; Occupied boats, RVs, vans, etc.: $32,500

Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Kings-...#ixzz0fzfFaxNc

[dbuck]

The shop guy was an ass. He is obviously not a Stu Leonard disciple. Stu Leonard was a successful grocery retailer from Chicago I believe, who popularized the cliche' "the customer is always right." Stu had 2 rules for doing business. Rule one, the customer is ALWAYS right. Rule two: If the customer is ever wrong, refer to rule one. Stu knew the average customer spent $60 per week in his store. (this is a long time ago) $60 per week is $3,120 per year and $62,400 in 20 years for repeat neighborhood customers. If a customer brought back a shiny apple they said was rotten, he got a new apple. Stu did not want to lose 62K of business over a 25 cent apple. Them was the old days, I guess, but there are still businesses that know how to treat customers because even though there is more competition and margins are tighter, businesses still need repeat business.

Maybe the guy was just a grumpy old man, and I am too, but he shouldn't have acted that way. I have been in the shop of a guy who has done work for some notable PGA pros, and he treats everyone like they are a pro, even if you are just getting a couple of regrips. He bent some for me free of charge and I didn't buy anything.

The only thing you did wrong was letting it get to you and ruin your day. As others have said, you could have sucked up a bit and possibly diffused the situation, but that would have been going the extra mile in my opinion. What you did when you left was blowing off steam, and surely anyone could understand that. I would have probably just smiled, said, "thank you for the information" and moved on not to return. As Faldo said to Norman after the 96 Masters, "don't let the bastards get to you." Else you will wind up a grumpy old man like me.

[B-Con]

Do you know what I do? I leave an open fader with nothing on it, and tweak it for them. That usually satisfies these people (obviously I made no changes). If I ever treated a person with so little respect, I'd probably lose the respect of my peers. And when people question my use of something or another, I answer their questions. Do you know how often a clear answer with a respectful and friendly tone gets them agreeing with me?

Hehe. The psuedo-guru placebo effect. Gotta love it.

[The Road Dog]

Hey Shanks. clue me in, you wrote "This shop is located in a very notorious area known for being full of •••••••s, Kings Point Delray. I'm not surprised to be treated like this in that area to be honest, but this guy really, really crossed the line raising his voice to me."

Who knows this area is notorious for "being full of"? And what are •••••••s?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Randy4h]

Unless the OP is changing his story now, the the guy said he COULD bend the club, but they were very brittle. He didn't say he couldn't or wouldn't bend it. It sounds like it was only after what sounds like smart-a** questioning by OP that he got defensive. Maybe it's a sign of the times, but customers also have some responsibility to be civil. If that would have happened, OP would now have his club bent and been on his way.

[sean_miller]

Me: "Do you do club fitting... Well, not really fitting, club modifications?"

Shanks, I have no doubt you know your stuff, but if next time (if there is a next time) try something like "yeah, I know they're brittle - my usual guy won't do it - I'm willing to take my chances. Go for it!"

The guy might be arrogant. He also might have misinterpreted every word you said. PS. Was he actually a "clubmaker"? Edit: Randy, when I was writing my post, your's hadn't shown up yet - spooky.

[Shanks A Million]

Hey Shanks. clue me in, you wrote "This shop is located in a very notorious area known for being full of •••••••s, Kings Point Delray. I'm not surprised to be treated like this in that area to be honest, but this guy really, really crossed the line raising his voice to me."

Jerks, essentially. It's not a ghetto, it's more like a twilight zone set. Kings point is a massive retirement community where poor New Yorkers go. It's essentially full of all the people that even New Yorkers find rude. They come here to get away from New York, but end up living in, essentially, a slightly brighter New York.

Unless the OP is changing his story now, the the guy said he COULD bend the club, but they were very brittle. He didn't say he couldn't or wouldn't bend it. It sounds like it was only after what sounds like smart-a** questioning by OP that he got defensive. Maybe it's a sign of the times, but customers also have some responsibility to be civil. If that would have happened, OP would now have his club bent and been on his way.

No, he

wouldn't bend the club. That's the point, and that's why I asked. He said it could be bent, but it was he and most clubmakers wouldn't bend it. I figured that part was obvious.

[pxc]

I'm really surprised at some of the responses in this thread. If you run a business, you don't talk to customers like that. You don't belittle them, you don't tell them you've worked for people so much better, richer, smarter, more talented, etc. If someone is beyond belligerent then you make them leave, and if they won't you call the police. Customers should be civil but asking questions, even questions that seem to imply you, the "expert" are wrong, should be answered. If all he wants to do is work on tour pro clubs then he shouldn't run a business open to the public.

[sean_miller]

I'm really surprised at some of the responses in this thread. If you run a business, you don't talk to customers like that. You don't belittle them, you don't tell them you've worked for people so much better, richer, smarter, more talented, etc. If someone is beyond belligerent then you make them leave, and if they won't you call the police. Customers should be civil but asking questions, even questions that seem to imply you, the "expert" are wrong, should be answered. If all he wants to do is work on tour pro clubs then he shouldn't run a business open to the public.

Hmm - that makes sense. People with short fuses shouldn't work in golf shops and meat departments.