Brian Davis

[iacas]

Just to clarify....you said "except when making a stroke". You cannot touch a loose impediment during a stroke.

Actually, you can.

Thats what got Davis...he touched it during his backswing.

Which is, by definition, not part of his stroke, which is why he was not allowed. He's allowed to touch a loose impediment in a hazard "during a stroke."

Source: Rules of Golf (Definitions) Stroke A "stroke" is the forward movement of the club made with the intention of striking at and moving the ball, but if a player checks his downswing voluntarily before the clubhead reaches the ball he has not made a stroke.

Key words are "forward movement of the club."

Unless it's live grass etc. attached to the hazard then he could have touched it during the stroke but not before.

Actually, you can brush the tops of grass in a hazard so long as you're not improving your lie or testing the condition. See Decision 13-4/4.

[Cussin hacker]

OK you got me on the back swing as not part of the stroke. I remember that now from another thread a while back. As for touching grass I said basically what you said, or that's what I mint to say. And yes you can touch grass etc. during the down stroke. I'll "tap out" on knowing the rules as well as you.

[Bug Bunny]

He knew he hit it but had no way of knowing whether it was indeed a loose impediment. Had it still had roots, no penalty. As a result from the shot, he essentially had lost anyway as long as Furyk 2-putts, which he did. So glad the loss didn't result from the penalty directly! Class act all around!!

[Zeph]

He didnt know he would hit it before taking the shot, why would he else do it.

[RemyM]

I think unless it interferes with the ball itself, it shouldn't have been a 2 stroke penalty.....I know that when I hit into the trees and there are branches dead or otherwise, I don't take any of that rule into consideration

Why do people who state they don't play by the rules get into rules discussions?

[clg82]

Why do people who state they don't play by the rules get into rules discussions?

Maybe I have to explain what I meant by that (didn't think I would have to) It's incredibly hard as an amature, to follow every rule in the book, especially every little technical rule. Until now I didn't even know that rule, that's part of being in a great forum like this, to learn new things. I didn't know that just because I didn't know every rule in the book that I couldn't have my own opinion or point of view.....

[iacas]

It's incredibly hard as an amature, to follow every rule in the book, especially every little technical rule.

No it's not. Rules books cost $1.99 or so and it's available free online.

[FHopper]

This forum has convinced me that I do not want to play big "G" Golf but enjoy playing little "g" golf very much. I have a new rules book and have not opened it... don't intend to. I think the common rules of little "g" golf are good enough for me; courtesy, pace, and the spirit of play where it lay. Going to go play some little "g" golf this afternoon, should be fun.

[clg82]

No it's not. Rules books cost $1.99 or so and it's available free online.

So when I question any kind of rule, i need to pull out the rule book look it over with my buddies and then confirm that it was or wasn't illegal. While the people behind us wait on us to make a ruiling.....We're not playing for money or for championship points....we play for fun, to have a couple beers, and enjoy the outdoors....

[clg82]

This forum has convinced me that I do not want to play big "G" Golf but enjoy playing little "g" golf very much. I have a new rules book and have not opened it... don't intend to. I think the common rules of little "g" golf are good enough for me; courtesy, pace, and the spirit of play where it lay. Going to go play some little "g" golf this afternoon, should be fun.

I'm not sure that I could have said it any better....too bad you live in KS or else you would be my next golf buddy!

[saevel25]

Eh i like to play both types of golf. I enjoy playing strict rules of golf from time to time, just to see how it goes. I use to play them constantly when i was in highschool.

[Zeph]

This forum has convinced me that I do not want to play big "G" Golf but enjoy playing little "g" golf very much. I have a new rules book and have not opened it... don't intend to. I think the common rules of little "g" golf are good enough for me; courtesy, pace, and the spirit of play where it lay. Going to go play some little "g" golf this afternoon, should be fun.

But you still use the handicap system to compare yourself to others, a system which is based on that you follow all of the rules. And honestly, how often do you come across some strange situation?

Davis found himself in a hazard by the way, not in the trees.

[plugged]

I'm willing to bet that 99% of players who maintain a HC don't know the rules of golf well enough to pass a test on them. Some of the rules are abvious; most are not. I am further willing to bet that, at least on a local level, players in a tournament routinely commit violations and neither they, nor their competitors, nor many times even the golf pros at the course would recognize the violations as such unless it was explcitly pointed out to them along with a citation.

I don't care about a violation this insignificant. When I start making my living playing golf (which, of course, will be never), then I'll care.

[saevel25]

I know majority of the rules, there are some stranghe ones out there that you might come across a few times in your lifetime.

[iacas]

So when I question any kind of rule, i need to pull out the rule book look it over with my buddies and then confirm that it was or wasn't illegal. While the people behind us wait on us to make a ruiling.....We're not playing for money or for championship points....we play for fun, to have a couple beers, and enjoy the outdoors....

No. Take the time to learn the basic rules before you get on the course. Problem solved.

The Rules of Golf has an index. If you are on the course it's pretty easy to look up the appropriate rule. Or look it up in the grill room. Look, in the end I don't really care what you do when you're off playing golf on your own, but don't give me excuses like "It's incredibly hard as an amature to follow every rule in the book." It's not. Ten minutes covers 90% of the rules, and 20 more minutes can get you to 95% of the rules situations you'd ever encounter.

[Shorty]

You CAN touch a loose impediment when making a stroke, but the take away is not part of the stroke as defined in the Rules of Golf. That is what got Mr. Davis.

Yes. During the telecast, one of the rules officials could be clearly heard talking about why it was important that it was the backswing not the downswing because it would be like dragging a pine cone back in a bunker on the backswing.

I really fail to see why this incident has confused so many people. It is a very simple and obvious infraction, and the fact that it was captured in close up by cameras means that the guy's name would be mud if he had said nothing, as it would have been shown over and over again. As for those who thinks it's a stupid rule or one they'd ignore, keep playing your "small g" golf, but just don't pretend to have a handicap and don't bother adding up your score, because you haven't had a score. A lot of people seem to be confused about the difference between a loose impediment, something which is embedded, and something which is growing. These distinctions are very simple have a large bearing on rulings.

[sean_miller]

The old Tom Watson rule books were great - all the rules, with explanations in his words, then some anecdotes. Worth reading on their own merit, but educational as well.

The more you learn about the rules, the more you need to put the blinders on during casual rounds with strangers - the number of rules broken per hole by the average foursome will drive you mad if you let it.

Regarding hazards, basically just take all your practice strokes outside the hazard, then don't touch anything with your club until contact with the ball. Don't . . . touch . . . anything (unless your ball is lying in casual water in a bunker and that's another matter).

[Fourputt]

This forum has convinced me that I do not want to play big "G" Golf but enjoy playing little "g" golf very much. I have a new rules book and have not opened it... don't intend to. I think the common rules of little "g" golf are good enough for me; courtesy, pace, and the spirit of play where it lay. Going to go play some little "g" golf this afternoon, should be fun.

Nobody says that you have to sit down and learn every rule by heart overnight. But anyone who plays golf regularly should aspire to improving his rules knowledge. It's an integral part of playing the game. Make some small effort now and then and one day you will realize that you have acquired a working knowledge of the rules without really trying, and the amazing thing is that you will find that it didn't spoil your fun after all. Most pf the players I know who decided to learn the game properly didn't do so in a day or a week, but over a period of time, by simply carrying a rule book and referring to once a round, or every other round as a little question came up. Gradually the whole point of the rules started to make sense. And most have found that they enjoy the game more than they did when they were just batting a ball around the course with no sense of order or structure to the game they were playing.

It's your choice, but since you have the book, why not look at it now and then?