What Tees Do Pro Women Play From?

[MrDC]

I played behind a pro from the Ladies Euro Tour this summer, didn't get her name (yes she was hot) she was there practicing, and she played the whites, I think that's about what they usually play.

[Elmer]

 

The longer the ball goes the less margin for error, but note that first cut is considered a miss.

 

I have been saying this forever to my golf buddies who are distance challenged. They dont buy it, but I am sticking with it.

Back on topic. I like to think I am consistent with my game that I could hang with them if I am getting strokes and playing our handicaps.

Straight up I would be toast, burnt toast! I think all of us would be. There is a reason they are pro and we are one TST!
The women of the LPGA are consistent in their game and while I am punching out of the woods, would be going fairway-green and moving on! no matter the yardage of the course.

Edited October 7, 2015 by Elmer

[DrvFrShow]

I played behind a pro from the Ladies Euro Tour this summer, didn't get her name (yes she was hot) she was there practicing, and she played the whites, I think that's about what they usually play.

The distance one practices and one plays in a tournament are two different things. I've looked at the course lengths on the tour and they typically play 6400. I'll use our local TPC Snoqualmie Ridge as an example - the whites are 6111 and the blues are 6522. They'd probably practice from the whites but the course set up for a tournament would be one all its own: about 122 yds shorter than the blues which could be accomplished by playing the from the whites on all of the par 3s, and a couple of the par 4s.

[Psyber]

Why wouldn't they practice from distances they're most likely to have to hit from in competition?

[RayG]

I remember an article from several years ago. One of the 'famous' golf writers played along side a LPGA pro on a course setup for the women. He found that it was basically a completely different setup than he was used to. Yardages were setup for the Ladies distances. His drives were "too far" and such. Oddball lies and lots of half shots and wedges. IF you were to play against a LPGA player on their course setup, you would likely have to go with FW's and irons off the tee to setup the money clubs. He said that was the basic difference. Once you got to that magic distance and putting (greens are a bit slower than the PGA events) it was essentially a wash.

As for playing at 6200-6600 yds, that is too much for the majority of us anyway, being the tip yardage at a majority of courses out there. 

[Jeremie Boop]

I remember an article from several years ago. One of the 'famous' golf writers played along side a LPGA pro on a course setup for the women. He found that it was basically a completely different setup than he was used to. Yardages were setup for the Ladies distances. His drives were "too far" and such. Oddball lies and lots of half shots and wedges. IF you were to play against a LPGA player on their course setup, you would likely have to go with FW's and irons off the tee to setup the money clubs. He said that was the basic difference. Once you got to that magic distance and putting (greens are a bit slower than the PGA events) it was essentially a wash.

As for playing at 6200-6600 yds, that is too much for the majority of us anyway, being the tip yardage at a majority of courses out there. 

I think that's pretty accurate, that playing the women's pro yardages is more about knowing what to hit so you don't end up in a weird spot. I remember watching Mark Crossfield play with some Pro Euro women and he ran into that problem a few times. Hitting driver had him through fairways into tough spots and such.

[bkuehn1952]

I randomly looked up the yardages of three LPGA events played in the USA this year (non-majors).  The yardages for the par 72 layouts were: 6,599, 6,476, 6,593.  The LPGA is playing in Malaysia this week and the par 71 set-up is listed at 6,260.

Of course, yardage is only part of the course set-up.  We have all had the experience of playing a "short" course that plays surprisingly long because of turf conditions, hazards and doglegs as well as "long" courses that yield 300 yard drives down rock hard fairways.

My guess is that the vast majority of us would find playing an LPGA set-up a challenge.

 

Edited October 8, 2015 by bkuehn1952

[Lihu]

They say the average LPGA player hits a 230 yd drive.

The average LPGA carries 220+ yards.

 

I randomly looked up the yardages of three LPGA events played in the USA this year (non-majors).  The yardages for the par 72 layouts were: 6,599, 6,476, 6,593.  The LPGA is playing in Malaysia this week and the par 71 set-up is listed at 6,260.

Of course, yardage is only part of the course set-up.  We have all had the experience of playing a "short" course that plays surprisingly long because of turf conditions, hazards and doglegs as well as "long" courses that yield 300 yard drives down rock hard fairways.

My guess is that the vast majority of us would find playing an LPGA set-up a challenge.

 

Yeah, unless you happen to be a scratch golfer, and even then. . .

[DrvFrShow]

 

[Jeremie Boop]

The average LPGA carries 220+ yards.

 

Yeah, unless you happen to be a scratch golfer, and even then. . .

I seem to remember that the set up for LPGA events isn't exactly overly difficult. That's not to say it's not more difficult than the normal conditions we play in though, but a scratch golfer would probably not really have much trouble shooting their normal scores or at least close to them. Heck, I'd hazard a guess that even low single digit players would be able to stay inside of their typical score spread for the most part. 6400-6600 yards isn't exactly super long so the only real trouble to be had would be bad rough or tough greens, neither of which are typical for LPGA events. Granted this is just for playing a round on the course, not playing on the course under tournament stress.

[Lihu]

I seem to remember that the set up for LPGA events isn't exactly overly difficult. That's not to say it's not more difficult than the normal conditions we play in though, but a scratch golfer would probably not really have much trouble shooting their normal scores or at least close to them. Heck, I'd hazard a guess that even low single digit players would be able to stay inside of their typical score spread for the most part. 6400-6600 yards isn't exactly super long so the only real trouble to be had would be bad rough or tough greens, neither of which are typical for LPGA events. Granted this is just for playing a round on the course, not playing on the course under tournament stress.

The courses run faster and the greens run really fast. Drives could easily roll off even fairways into hazards and other such horrible stuff. They're not setup like anything you've probably ever seen. . .I played one collegiate D1 female golfer, and even 6400 yards on my home course was not overly challenging for her. An LPGA could have probably shot under par from those tees.

[Jon Hoover]

The courses run faster and the greens run really fast. Drives could easily roll off even fairways into hazards and other such horrible stuff. They're not setup like anything you've probably ever seen. . .I played one collegiate D1 female golfer, and even 6400 yards on my home course was not overly challenging for her. An LPGA could have probably shot under par from those tees.

I'd wager that top LPGA pro's could shoot under par on a 7k course no problem. Their overall games are so good that unless its an off day they could be good from any set of tees.

[iacas]

I'd wager that top LPGA pro's could shoot under par on a 7k course no problem. Their overall games are so good that unless its an off day they could be good from any set of tees.

I would take that bet, but it would hinge upon the definition of "could" and "top".

The top 30 or so all "could" but whether they'd do it on a regular basis or even the majority of the time… I don't know. It would depend on a lot of things beyond the distance, too.

And to be clear, "I'd take that bet" doesn't mean I'd do it without suitable terms: odds, a percentage of the time breaking par that's north of 60%, a suitable course rating, etc.

[Jeremie Boop]

The courses run faster and the greens run really fast. Drives could easily roll off even fairways into hazards and other such horrible stuff. They're not setup like anything you've probably ever seen. . .I played one collegiate D1 female golfer, and even 6400 yards on my home course was not overly challenging for her. An LPGA could have probably shot under par from those tees.

The course probably runs faster to allow for more roll out on their drives, I can see that for sure. Most of the time I probably wouldn't need to hit driver off the tee to be in good position *should I hit the fairway* I'm not sure how to gauge speed of greens but I think most of the time normal courses don't stimp higher than 9 or so, and PGA is usually 11 or 12, so I figure LPGA should be in the middle somewhere. Speed of greens is less of a problem than how much slope a green has or how difficult the pin placement is though. I don't doubt that the courses are setup a lot different than I've seen, not to mention they are in much better shape than just about any course I've seen too.

[Jon Hoover]

I would take that bet, but it would hinge upon the definition of "could" and "top".

The top 30 or so all "could" but whether they'd do it on a regular basis or even the majority of the time… I don't know. It would depend on a lot of things beyond the distance, too.

And to be clear, "I'd take that bet" doesn't mean I'd do it without suitable terms: odds, a percentage of the time breaking par that's north of 60%, a suitable course rating, etc.

On a typical CC championship course 7k rated around 75, weekend golf conditions, low wind nice and sunny. Ya top 20 i think could shoot under par no problem. 2-1 odds for $5 

[Lihu]

The course probably runs faster to allow for more roll out on their drives, I can see that for sure. Most of the time I probably wouldn't need to hit driver off the tee to be in good position *should I hit the fairway* I'm not sure how to gauge speed of greens but I think most of the time normal courses don't stimp higher than 9 or so, and PGA is usually 11 or 12, so I figure LPGA should be in the middle somewhere. Speed of greens is less of a problem than how much slope a green has or how difficult the pin placement is though. I don't doubt that the courses are setup a lot different than I've seen, not to mention they are in much better shape than just about any course I've seen too.

I was simply stating that on many tournament courses if you miss some fairways it will probably cost you a stroke or more depending upon your skill level. The greens are also very large and have lots of features in them that make for interesting reads.

LPGA are really good, so it's difficult to compare us (18 and 11 handicap) with them. I sometimes play with lady scratch players, and they really are comparable to a decent 5 to 6 male handicap or better in some cases. They can't hit their 7i 170 yards or anything, but they can hit a hybrid onto a green from 200 yards with some regularity. Now, the average LPGA are 4 to 5 strokes better than lady scratch players. They're really good players no matter how you dice it. Unless, you're a scratch/plus male handicap you're going to have a really hard time comparing anything you do with an LPGA.

[iacas]

On a typical CC championship course 7k rated around 75, weekend golf conditions, low wind nice and sunny. Ya top 20 i think could shoot under par no problem. 2-1 odds for $5 

It would be rated around 80-81 for women if the 75 rating is for men. So they'd definitely have more than "no problem" as the LPGA players are still about a +6.

[DrvFrShow]

It's the driving distance. At the tips you narrowed the field to Thompson, Lincicome, Klatten, Sjodin, and Ciganda. That's a 267 yd cut off with the top end at 274.5 yds. Wie is not in the group - she only averaged 255 last season. I almost didn't include Ciganda. There are too many long shots. You can end up with a 590 yd par 5. That's a long hole. If you're only hitting a 230 yd drive, you're hitting a 3W and then a 5 or 6 iron into the green depending upon how far you hit your 3W. As good as the player is, that's a long shot to depend on for a GIR, so most likely a scramble in this situation. This hole, however, becomes a par 6 unless it is shortened to 574 yds.

The other thing people overlook is that from the tippy tips even some of our local muni courses become entirely different courses and it isn't just the distance. That first hole tee shot doesn't look the same because the approach to the fairway is now quite a bit narrower and that draw most of you play around the dogleg from the whites becomes a cut so they land in the middle of the fairway instead of in the trees - there's a big tree blocking that push draw now.

Then that relatively easy 7 iron shot on the par 3 third hole becomes a 220 yd shot that has to clear to front bunkers, and the tee isn't elevated. There are trees on the right, and usually a left to right cross wind but don't be fooled into playing it, because it dies about 3/4 the way to the hole and if you're short you're in the left bunker. Now for women, this hole becomes a very short par 4 unless they move the tees up to 210 yds. If they're accurate that group at the top can hit the green if they want to play aggressive.

I think this is what Erik is getting at.