My Swing (Shanks a Million)

[Shanks A Million]

I've stopped thinking anything about swing thoughts.

I don't know about that. Swing fundimentals are important, and I don't think I've ever met a low handicap with a high handicap swing. "If it works don't fix it" may make sense if you were the #1 golfer in the world, but even Tiger is constantly changing his swing. Unless we're on the PGA tour, our swings are not even close to finished products, and we should always be getting better. The reason you got worse is most likely that you worked too fast, not giving each move enough time to become ingrained.

The fact of the matter is, that you can trust a swing a lot easier if you know where the ball is going. I know, at least to some extent, where my ball is going. I know it's at least going to go forward, and probably within 20 yards of my target, at least with the shorter clubs. That's worst case, but in many cases, it will be more or less on target. I couldn't trust my swing back when I knew it could go anywhere. As soon as I started getting to the point where, on the range, I could hit ball after ball solidly, then I started to totally forget about the giant lake in front of me that used to haunt my dreams. Some of my favorite holes are over water, but when I started, they were hard to me, because the water was in play. Today, I don't even think about it.

[Harmonious]

I've stopped thinking anything about swing thoughts.

In other words, "play golf, don't play swing". You might just find that the game will become easier when you aren't constantly searching for that elusive magic swing. Let us know how it works out for you. Good luck.

[nuck81]

In other words, "play golf, don't play swing". You might just find that the game will become easier when you aren't constantly searching for that elusive magic swing. Let us know how it works out for you. Good luck.

I plan on breaking my first 90 the next time I play 18 holes. I've already been playing nine holes at +9, +10, and +8 the last few times. I got it in me, and I'll do it.

[iacas]

The reason why I think having a "loop" is bad is two-fold.

1) First, it takes a lot of time to ingrain it, and even then you're not going to have it (the timing) from day to day.
2) The second is that it's mis-applied force. The clubhead, your hands, etc. are not moving in the plane, so you're wasting effort.

It's like swinging a hammer all over and trying to get back to the ball - it's tougher and your force is not directed down the plane.



Money quote from the video: "The sooner you can get the club on that line in the downstroke, the lower your handicap."



Red line is shaft plane (nobody good hits the ball there), yellow is elbow plane (virtually everyone good is here or slightly above it), blue is turned shoulder plane and is as high as you'd ever want to be.

You're well above the plane at the top of your backswing. You're likely under the plane with the plane shifted well to the right at P6 (shaft horizontal to the ground on the way down).



Plane shifted well to the right, shaft has finally returned (albeit pretty high) to the ball on the TSP.



There's your clubhead path. Under and out to the right, though honestly, probably not as bad as this looks given the video wasn't shot from the ideal place.

Look, Shanks, you're a 6.7. The best thing you can do right now is to shoot video from the proper spot and to be honest with yourself.

[Harmonious]

Really good analysis, Erik. I originally questioned your point that no one good hits along the shaft plane, but you are probably right as that would be an extreme inside-out swing. However, I would add that the elbow plane and the shaft plane can be one and the same at impact. In fact, that would be the ideal one-plane swing. I had to check out Jim Hardy's site to confirm that.

Anyway, good post.

[iacas]

I originally questioned your point that no one good hits along the shaft plane, but you are probably right as that would be an extreme inside-out swing.

Most likely it would be, but the bigger factor is that you're swinging fast and your hands/wrists will uncock on the downswing. The hands go higher, taking the handle of the club higher, above the shaft plane and up towards the elbow plane (or higher).

However, I would add that the elbow plane and the shaft plane can be one and the same at impact. In fact, that would be the ideal one-plane swing. I had to check out Jim Hardy's site to confirm that.

I agree with the last part but don't see the distinction in the first part. The way I've defined "elbow plane" is at setup. Same for shaft plane. If you get your shaft on the elbow plane at impact, that's still just the elbow plane.

If you don't define the shaft plane until impact, then technically EVERY shot that hits the clubface would be on the shaft plane... Which is why, I suspect, we set the "shaft plane" at address, just as we set the elbow plane at address. TSP is not set until the shoulder has turned, of course.

[saevel25]

So should the hands be traveling between the shoudler and elbow then? Also, should the shaft angle at impact be closer to the elbow plane?

[jamo]

iacas, what do you mean by "plane shifted to the right"?

[DavidFehertysBike]

I have a bit of loop, myself. I takeway outside and then re-route inside on the way down. It least its feels like i do that, anyway.

[iacas]

iacas, what do you mean by "plane shifted to the right"?

Tough to explain (easy to demonstrate) and I'm in a pinch so I'll try to mix the two.

Imagine Hogan's pane of glass. That's a plane, and in the illustration above, it points square to the target line. If you get under the plane (i.e. creating a new plane of glass), the "plane line" (the bottom of the piece of glass) will point to the right. This is too much inside-out. Over-the-top golfers shift the plane line well to the left. Hope that makes sense.

[jamo]

Hope that makes sense.

OK, that makes sense.

[Harmonious]

I hope this link works, because it really details well, for a one-plane swing, where the hands should be, as well as the different planes. For example, Scott McCarron starts the hands and club along the shaft line, obviously. When the club reaches parallel, by necessity the club moves up to a plane parallet to the shaft line. On the downswing, the opposite occurs, with the club, hands and elbow all converging onto the shaft line through impact.

Obviously, for a two-plane swing, it is much different.

Every time my swing starts to get out of whack, I try to visualize my hands on that flatter plane through impact. It seems to work well for me, anyway.

http://www.planetruthgolf.com/Blog/t...-the-Line.aspx

[James_Black]

I take the club up steep and then flatter on the downswing.

Jim Furyk does the same

[iacas]

I hope this link works, because it really details well, for a one-plane swing, where the hands should be, as well as the different planes. For example, Scott McCarron starts the hands and club along the shaft line, obviously. When the club reaches parallel, by necessity the club moves up to a plane parallet to the shaft line. On the downswing, the opposite occurs, with the club, hands and elbow all converging onto the shaft line through impact.

I don't personally prefer the definitions. I realize too that Jim Hardy created them, but Scott McCarron is shifting his plane from the top to impact. It's exactly what Ted Fort talked about not wanting to do in the hammer video. Why would you want to be on a parallel plane?

In truth Scott isn't on the parallel plane. Look at the left of these images. Look at where his hands exit on the other end. Oddly, he DOES get back to the shaft plane at impact, but that's exceedingly rare - a lot of players swing much closer to the elbow plane. My lines are the red ones. You can see the butt of the club is really close to the elbow plane at the top, which I personally prefer and like. It's not on the parallel line. I didn't have 10 minutes to listen to the whole thing. Take what I've pasted here for what it's worth.

[Shanks A Million]

The swing I posted was not an ingrained one, it was a severe exaggeration in several ways, but I like the feel. But my point here, is that it's nearly impossible for me to get "stuck" under plane, and most of my problems come from being off plane and the chicken wing. I can literally loop it down as low as I possibly can, and almost never get under plane. What's worse, me being under plane, or over it? I say over.

My #1 problem is my plane getting too steep, and looping it down helps me stay on plane much, much better. I think I see why guys like Furyk do it, and think about it, he's a great ballstriker, day in and day out. I would like to, and try to stay on elbow plane, but it always gets me too steep on the way down.

I can't say it's for everyone, but considering how much better my swing is with that plane?

Here's the progression:





But the loop always hits it the best. I can't say why, but the improvement is incredible. I haven't even swung a club for a week or so, but I will certainly take iacas's words into consideration. I may try to ingrain a smaller loop. What swing of these is the best?

(Also, in the video, I might point out I wasn't aiming in line with the stick, but at a flag about 10 yards to the right of where the stick is aimed.)

[saevel25]

So does the hands at impact travel back down the elbow line, or does it fall below it?

[Kieran123]

That's one weird swing, I don't know how you make consistent contact with so much head movement and lifting. But you're a 6ish handicap, so keep at it!!

[iacas]

So does the hands at impact travel back down the elbow line, or does it fall below it?

Depends on the golfer. Some get to the elbow plane at the top of the backswing and then swing straight down it. That's rare - most will drop underneath an inch or two. Very, very few hit the ball on the shaft plane.