Tour Pros: Draw v. Fade

[Vance87]

Started as a slicer but have worked my way into a draw with all my clubs. However it seems to me that most public courses favor a shot to the right, seeing as how most people slice the ball. It's kind of how the cart path is usually on the right side too.

[WUTiger]

In Golf My Way (1974), Nicklaus has a chapter entitled, Why I Always Played the Fade - and Now Sometimes Played the Draw. Jack says he hated the draw until he got bursitis in his hip in 1963 and had to adjust his swing somewhat. Details are in the chapter.

Nicklaus also talked about the percentages against hitting the ball straight , and said working the ball back toward the pin increased his margin or error.

During the 1970s, most teaching pros said this: A draw can allow a player to be more aggressive, and allow them to defeat false fronts on greens. But, a draw was harder to control, and the fade was more reliable on days your swing was a little off.

During the 1980s, the idea seemed to be, work the ball either way dpennding on the situation.

Didn't take many lessons in the 1990s.

Since 2000, idea seems to be hit the ball straight when rebuilding swing, but then choose a preferred fade or draw as your primary shot. - A margin of error thing. But don't be a Rocco Mediate: If you primarily draw the ball, be able to fade a 3W and maybe your short irons just in case you need it.

But 2000 and onward has seen the rise of the high MOI driver and the straight balls. From what fellow poster say here and there, straight ahead is an increasing option for those who want it.

Final note: For players with back trouble, a draw supposedly is easier on the body than a fade. Can't remember why.

[sean_miller]

Final note: For players with back trouble, a draw supposedly is easier on the body than a fade. Can't remember why.

When a draw turns into a hook, you slowly turn and reach for a provisional. When a fade turns into a slice, you sprint awkwardly off the teebox trying to catch a glimpse of the landing - it might be in play.

[iacas]

When a draw turns into a hook, you slowly turn and reach for a provisional. When a fade turns into a slice, you sprint awkwardly off the teebox trying to catch a glimpse of the landing - it might be in play.

They're the same thing.

The problem - and the reason that type of saying came about - is that because most people come over the top of the golf ball if they DO manage to hit a hook it's the duck hook variety.

[russtyputter]

My instructor (Glenn Monday - Author of "Know Your Swing") has me learning in our first lessons how to hit a draw shot. He said this is the first shot to learn and that all others will come easy. I used to have the idea that I should just aim straight and hit the ball straight but, now I realize that hitting inside-out and getting the ball to draw is a better approach to hitting more fairways and greens. - "Know Your Swing" pg 7 "You are eliminating the right side of the golf course. You are cutting out half of the potential trouble." I'm curious to ask him why the first shot he teaches is not a fade but, in his book he mentions most tour pros use an inside-out swing path and how important the draw shot is.

I'm definitely going take his advice though as he has 40 years of teaching experience, has been amongst great names in golf (Bruce Devlin, Arnold Palmer, Fuzzy Zoeler and Gary Player to name a few) and was a top-5 nominee by Golf and Golf Digest magazine in 2009 as top instructor in the USA.

I'm going to stick with working on my draw

[whatwhatwhat]

I hit it straight most of the time

Not with a 20 handicap you dont haha, I was always under the impression most pros hit a draw, unsure now, but those guys can work it both ways without much difficulty

[Awsi Dooger]

I attended the Nationwide event at Miccosukee the past two days. I watched at least 70 players off the tee on various holes and the overwhelming shot shape is a high controlled draw.

[MJP]

Why someone would hit a push fade I just don't know. A push fade basically relies on your ability to line up well to the left of the target. When hitting a pull fade or push draw, you can aim right at the flag.

Worked for Nicklaus and Trevino, but damn does that seem hard. I would never feel comftorable over the ball aiming so far off the target.

Everytime I hit a push fade it goes OB.

[MJP]

I attended the Nationwide event at Miccosukee the past two days. I watched at least 70 players off the tee on various holes and the overwhelming shot shape is a high controlled draw.

Most definitely. Youtube "pro tracer". Most shots will be baby push draws

[Easy]

I heard Vijay hits a pull fade but this looks likes a push fade to me....??

[Bryan SD2]

I have attended nearly 80 PGA Tour events (with a few Senior Tour events thrown in) and the #1 ball flight choice is definitely a draw. I had a job that landed me at Tour Stop to Tour Stop each week.... and although it was a few years ago, the draw is the #1 choice. Distance and roll out with the driver being one reason. These guys spin the ball so much (all of them playing the softest cover balls out there) that extra bite on the green from fading everything in there is NOT needed for them at all. The draw is more difficult to execute, and the miss (big duck hook) becomes easier to eliminate than the miss for faders (big nasty slice which robs you of distance) for better players, not to mention for the best few hundred players on the planet. Back in the day there were a few guys who hit fades 95% of the time, Bruce Leitzke being one of the better known guys.

[Zeph]

I heard Vijay hits a pull fade but this looks likes a push fade to me....??

The ball went right of the green, so it was probably not an intentional shot. Looks like the clubface was slightly too open.

The determining factor for your shot is the swing path. If you swing out-to-in, a push draw is impossible. If you swing in-to-out, a pull-fade is impossible. Most tour players probably got an in-out swingpath, which makes the push-draw the desired shot, but they can also hit a push-fade.

[iacas]

Why someone would hit a push fade I just don't know. A push fade basically relies on your ability to line up well to the left of the target. When hitting a pull fade or push draw, you can aim right at the flag.

Because your feet don't matter very much. Hogan, Nicklaus, and Trevino all push-faded the ball. So two of the greatest ballstrikers ever and the greatest golfer to date. Hmmm.

Look, with any ball that curves you aim the clubface slightly left or right of the target. Where your feet point is far less relevant - most average golfers aren't accurately aware of where their feet are pointing anyway.

[iacas]

Why someone would hit a push fade I just don't know. A push fade basically relies on your ability to line up well to the left of the target. When hitting a pull fade or push draw, you can aim right at the flag.

Because your feet don't matter very much. Hogan, Nicklaus, and Trevino all push-faded the ball. So two of the greatest ballstrikers ever and the greatest golfer to date. Hmmm.

Look, with any ball that curves you aim the clubface slightly left or right of the target. Where your feet point is far less relevant - most average golfers aren't accurately aware of where their feet are pointing anyway.

[motteler621]

i looked at the video of V1 and he doesnt come over the top in the sense that his shaft isnt on the plane, his shaft is exactly on the hands plane on impact, but right through impact he cuts across the ball very slightly. Look at brant shnedeker running up to the green before the shot hits the ground, that dude is always running and talking super fast,lol

[Easy]

Why someone would hit a push fade I just don't know. A push fade basically relies on your ability to line up well to the left of the target. When hitting a pull fade or push draw, you can aim right at the flag.

I don't think there push-fades went that far right. :P

The ball went right of the green, so it was probably not an intentional shot. Looks like the clubface was slightly too open.

So Vijay actually has an in-out swing path?

Also with an in to out swing path wouldn't the cure for a push-fade be to simply close the club face a bit more at address?

[ghalfaire]

Most prefer a fade for the reason Lee Trevino gave years ago, "you can talk to a fade but a hook won't listen".

[Bryan SD2]

Big Jack hit a Power Fade.... Most notably off the tee with the driver. Think 18 at Augusta. He hit draws with a good portion of his iron shots, think a carving right to lefter to the Sunday pin on 16 at Augusta. He could probably work the ball both ways better than anyone ever.... Maybe Tiger is in that conversation. Trevinos dedication to the left to right ball flight is often cited as a reason for his lack of success at The Masters. And anyone who thinks Hogan was a fader only is absolutely incorrect. Post car crash, yes.