Cheating friends

[ace3g]

Originally Posted by turtleback

Doesn't that distort your handicap?  2 mulligans is the equivalent of at least 4 strokes.  You hit the shot, why not live with the result.  If you miss an 8 foot putt would you consider taking a mulligan?  I doubt it.  Yet there really is no difference.  And as meenman pointed out, even the possibility of taking a mulligan on a tough tee shot takes a lot of the pressure off.  I play friendly matches all the time where no one would even dream of cheating.

Hey, do what you want, but the only one you are fooling is yourself.  And you have no basis or right to then criticize someone else because they cheat more, or in a different way, than you do.

I actually challenge myself on errant tee shots to hit a good recovery shot and save par.  But yes I am trying to eliminate the max 2 mulligans per round all together.

I was more agitated because my friend posted his score on FB (89) without mentioning the 4-5 mulligans.

Also would mention if I was playing for money, club tournament, or in group where we outright said "ok lets see who has the best score at the end" then of course no mulligans.

For amateur golfers, I think most would agree mulligans are ok to use in group play, if used in moderation.

[thescarecrow]

Originally Posted by ace3g

I actually challenge myself on errant tee shots to hit a good recovery shot and save par.  But yes I am trying to eliminate the max 2 mulligans per round all together.

I was more agitated because my friend posted his score on FB (89) without mentioning the 4-5 mulligans.

Also would mention if I was playing for money, club tournament, or in group where we outright said "ok lets see who has the best score at the end" then of course no mulligans.

For amateur golfers, I think most would agree mulligans are ok to use in group play, if used in moderation.

Your handicap index should read /?????????

Sounds more like a cheating contest than a game of golf.

y

[SimpleSimon]

Originally Posted by ace3g

I actually challenge myself on errant tee shots to hit a good recovery shot and save par.  But yes I am trying to eliminate the max 2 mulligans per round all together.

I was more agitated because my friend posted his score on FB (89) without mentioning the 4-5 mulligans.

Also would mention if I was playing for money, club tournament, or in group where we outright said "ok lets see who has the best score at the end" then of course no mulligans.

For amateur golfers, I think most would agree mulligans are ok to use in group play, if used in moderation.

You should be challenging yourself to stop hitting errant tee shots all together so you stop using mulligans. You will never improve until you eliminate the mulligans. It will help you focus and concentrate much more on each shot.

[MacDutch]

Mulligans are no part of a normal round of golf, same goes for dropping where the ball crossed out of bounds, improve your lie and drop somewhere near a point you think your lost ball must be.

If you play like that, better call it hackers delight or Mulligan to the max.

[Shortylook]

Im into my 5th month of golf, my handicap has dropped from 32 to 28.when I play with 3 mates we take scores, but no betting, only because most times they forget how many shots they have or take a drop when they think they deserve one. It didn't bother me how they play or score on their cards, all I know is I don't take mulligans,free drops or cheat my card. I think it was here somewhere in a post that a wise fellow said to me" forget the easy way out, play the game as it should be played and reap the benefits. You might loose some mate matches, but when it comes to the real deal tourney type matches you will prevail from the hard work you put in". Just my 2c worth.

[bplewis24]

Cheating aside, as some have already pointed out, you won't really ever improve at golf until you play 100% by the rules.  The reason why is because when you elminate mulligans from the game and you force yourself to either play out of the woods or take relief + penalty or re-tee after hitting OB with penalty--whatever the case may be--and you have to write that 9 down on the scorecard...it's painful.  You remember it.  It sticks out on the scorecard (hopefully, anyway).  And the next time you tee it up, you think about where the trouble is and how to avoid it.  You think about eliminating that miss via your aim or your swing mechanics or whatever.  But it stays with you literally and figuratively, whereas if you take a mulligan and write down that 4 or 5, you and your friends forget about it eventually.  You don't force yourself to eliminate those mistakes because you don't suffer the consequences.

Playing by the rules 100% of the time really does do you more good, in the long run.

[ace3g]

I play probably once or twice every 3-4 months since I started playing golf 5 years ago.  I have no shame putting big numbers on my score card, helps you improve.  That is why I love that I brought my scoring down from the 100s to around the mid 80s.  If there is an opportunity to take a drop of a bad tee shot I will.

I never use a "foot wedge" or try to improve the lie of my ball.  Also I never use a mulligan on a par 3, bothers me when people hit a mulligan and their 2nd shot lands on the green.  Also like I mentioned I'm proud of my low scores 81, 82 because I didn't have to use a mulligan in those rounds.

I think what should bother people more in golf when you see someone hitting 2 balls for the entire round and essentially playing best ball in a round by themselves, that hurts their game game more than using 1-2 mulligans.

Right now I'm more worried about ball striking than anything else, even more than my final score.

Hell for the most part I can usually salvage some good scores because my short game is really good, the one thing I practice the most.

[newtogolf]

We all have to decide how we want to play the game, but mulligans are not part of golf anymore than foot wedges, drops, or gimme's are.  It sounds like you've justified mulligans for yourself but get bothered when others cheat differently or more than you deem acceptable.

It can't be both ways, you either play by the rules or you don't.

Originally Posted by ace3g

When I play, other than maybe 1 mulligan a round on a drive, I'm honest with my scores (even those 3rd/4th putts), you are never going to improve your game if you aren't counting all your strokes.  Plus those frustrations/mistakes make you want to get better and practice more.

I do get a bit bothered when I know I played better in a round than someone else, then look at the score card and they shot "lower" than me.

Originally Posted by ace3g

I actually challenge myself on errant tee shots to hit a good recovery shot and save par.  But yes I am trying to eliminate the max 2 mulligans per round all together.

I was more agitated because my friend posted his score on FB (89) without mentioning the 4-5 mulligans.

Also would mention if I was playing for money, club tournament, or in group where we outright said "ok lets see who has the best score at the end" then of course no mulligans.

For amateur golfers, I think most would agree mulligans are ok to use in group play, if used in moderation.

[ace3g]

In my situation/argument I have only been talking about mulligans off the tee, the people I play with, we follow all the other rules.  It didn't bother me that much because we never play competitively against each other, just the fact that he talked about shooting an 89 after not playing for months on FB without mentioning or hinting at the use of mulligans.  Not really something to brag about when you didn't really earn that score.

I'm always honest with myself and how my game was at the end of a round even with adjusted scores due to mulligans.

So I'll just leave it at that.

[meenman]

Originally Posted by ace3g

In my situation/argument I have only been talking about mulligans off the tee, the people I play with, we follow all the other rules.  It didn't bother me that much because we never play competitively against each other, just the fact that he talked about shooting an 89 after not playing for months on FB without mentioning or hinting at the use of mulligans.  Not really something to brag about when you didn't really earn that score.

I'm always honest with myself and how my game was at the end of a round even with adjusted scores due to mulligans.

So I'll just leave it at that.

The problem is, you can never *adjust your score for mulligans* - there is a hell of a lot more pressure on you on the tee box when you are hitting 3 off of the tee - because you dont want to be hitting 5 from there.

I played with a friend who *shot in the 80s* - playing like you do. When we started to make him play by the rules 100%, his scores went up 20 strokes.

2 years later, he is shooting legitimate 80s, instead of the fake ones he shot before.

Thinking mulligans off the tee is ok is no better than what you whine about your friends doing.

[phan52]

Originally Posted by ace3g

I actually challenge myself on errant tee shots to hit a good recovery shot and save par.  But yes I am trying to eliminate the max 2 mulligans per round all together.

I was more agitated because my friend posted his score on FB (89) without mentioning the 4-5 mulligans.

Also would mention if I was playing for money, club tournament, or in group where we outright said "ok lets see who has the best score at the end" then of course no mulligans.

For amateur golfers, I think most would agree mulligans are ok to use in group play, if used in moderation.

Not if you are posting the score for your handicap.

[Chunky]

Who's rules you playing by? THe rules of golf say if you don't replay an out of bounds shot from your original lie you are disqualified. I'd say that means you not only lose the match but are still responsible for all bets in the match that anyone else wins. But... if you are on a public course, which most of us are you aren't going to get time to look for your ball or go back to a tee, so I would make a rule, lost balls and Out of bounds shots get a drop near where it went out or is lost and a one shot penalty. Some people say two but most times people would be in a better chance if they would have taken the second shot, lying three from the tee.

The other alternative is you make your bets and say we are playing by the rules of golf an throw down a rule book on the first tee and say here's the rules.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by ace3g

I never use a "foot wedge" or try to improve the lie of my ball.  Also I never use a mulligan on a par 3, bothers me when people hit a mulligan and their 2nd shot lands on the green.  Also like I mentioned I'm proud of my low scores 81, 82 because I didn't have to use a mulligan in those rounds.

So you don't think the possibility of hitting a mulligan, if you needed to, lessened the pressure you faced in those rounds?  There is rarely more pressure than hitting 3 of the tee after blowing a tee shot OB.  Or hitting a provisional after hitting a tee shot into a position where it might not be found.

The really funny thing is how you are so critical of how others cheat while rationalizing your own particular brand of cheating.  There really is no difference except in your own mind.  And if you want to cheat, fine.  I'm not playing against you or in a tournament with you.  But it is NOT true that amateur golfers, at least not ones serious enough to even think about having a handicap, think 1 or 2 mulligan a round are acceptable.  A handicap is meaningless unless the player plays by the rule.  All of them.  Anything else is really just mental masturbation, IMO.

[turtleback]

Originally Posted by Chunky

Who's rules you playing by? THe rules of golf say if you don't replay an out of bounds shot from your original lie you are disqualified. I'd say that means you not only lose the match but are still responsible for all bets in the match that anyone else wins. But... if you are on a public course, which most of us are you aren't going to get time to look for your ball or go back to a tee, so I would make a rule, lost balls and Out of bounds shots get a drop near where it went out or is lost and a one shot penalty. Some people say two but most times people would be in a better chance if they would have taken the second shot, lying three from the tee.

The other alternative is you make your bets and say we are playing by the rules of golf an throw down a rule book on the first tee and say here's the rules.

That is why the rules allow you to hit a provisional.  Maybe once or twice a season will I lose a ball and not have hit a provisional**.  And if the tee shot is anywhere near OB I hit a provisional.  Your argument sounds like either you don't know the rules about provisionals or you are rationalizing.

** and if the course is so crowded that I can't go back and rehit (although I will if it is the least bit practicable.  It really doesn't hold anyone up unless everyone in your group is walking, as in a cart you quickly rejoin your group), and I am forced by circumstances beyond my control to drop a ball I would absolutely treat the drop as lying 3.  It is nice to assume that an actual re-tee would have been a much better shot and you would have been in a lot better place lying 3 so you only treat your drop as lying 2, but it didn't happen.  There is just as much chance that the re-tee would also have landed in a lousy position - or maybe OB and then you are hitting 5.  So the disadvantage of being in a bad spot and treating the (exceedingly rare) drop as lying 3 seems like a small price to pay, scorewise, for the forced deviation from the rules.

[bplewis24]

Originally Posted by newtogolf

We all have to decide how we want to play the game, but mulligans are not part of golf anymore than foot wedges, drops, or gimme's are.  It sounds like you've justified mulligans for yourself but get bothered when others cheat differently or more than you deem acceptable.

It can't be both ways, you either play by the rules or you don't.

I would argue that a mulligan has more impact on a round than a foot wedge.  Sometimes a foot wedge can get a person from behind a tree or rock, yes, but a lot of the times I see people improving their lie by a few inches or a foot.  A mulligan can save you several strokes on a single hole.

And foot wedges have some practical place in the game when playing winter rules (although it's implemented differently, obviously), whereas mulligans are never a part of an official round of golf.

Don't get me wrong, I hate the foot wedge as much as the mulligan, but I think it's fair to say that thinking mulligans are okay but foot wedges aren't is a bit backwards IMO.

[CanuckAaron]

Originally Posted by ace3g

I actually challenge myself on errant tee shots to hit a good recovery shot and save par.  But yes I am trying to eliminate the max 2 mulligans per round all together.

I was more agitated because my friend posted his score on FB (89) without mentioning the 4-5 mulligans.

Also would mention if I was playing for money, club tournament, or in group where we outright said "ok lets see who has the best score at the end" then of course no mulligans.

For amateur golfers, I think most would agree mulligans are ok to use in group play, if used in moderation.

One of the issues with the bold is that what constitutes moderation? Using 1 mulligan is the same as using 4, the score means absolutely nothing.

[MyrtleBeachGolf]

The other day I was playing. Had a decent round going. I hit my tee-shot and pushed it right on a dogleg right into an area where I saw some private homes back yards. I quickly said, I'll hit a provisional. I then striped that provisional down the left side of the fairway. It took me an extra 20 seconds to do that. When I reached my first tee-shot that I had pushed right, I realized it was about 2 feet to the right hand side of a white OB stake. What did I do? Did I foot wedge it 3 feet back into play and hit it? Did I take a drop right there and take a 1 stroke penalty, hitting my next as 3? Did i just put that ball in my pocket and go play the other as a Mulligan? NO! I did none of those things. Because those aren't actual rules. I picked up my ball that was 2 feet OB. I walked over to my provisional in the fairway. Which was lying 3. I hit my 4th shot to the 150 stake. I hit my 5th shot to the middle of the green. I then 2 putted and marked a Double Bogey 7 down on my card. If I had used a 'Mulligan' that hole would have been a text book par 5 for me. If I had dropped and taken a 1 stoke penalty, I would have made a bogey 6. But those aren't real rules. If your first shot goes out of bounds are is lost, you MUST re-tee and play your 3rd shot from there. It's the rules. After that double bogey I played the last 5 holes at even par and carded a 41 for the front. Would I have been happier with 39? Sure! But it would be cheating. End of story.

[GolfGuns]

I used to play with a guy that never lost a ball; and our home course is not friendly to missed fairways. And another guy in the foursome was always late. Anyway the guys I currently play with respect the game and it is so much more enjoyable and I have become a better golfer.