Club Pro Out of Line???

[Crey23]

This happened at my course last Friday and I would appreciate your thoughts on whether the club pro acted appropriately in this situation.

While I do not deny that your friends have a responsibility to the motorist, there are several things that are very wrong in this situation:

1. The Pro should have never allowed an pissed of individual enter the course. Either send a marshal to bring you in or wait till you get to #9 to confront the guy, and MEDIATE THE CONVERSATION . Never allowed to chase downs your friends. What would have happened if the situation had gotten violent? Who is responsible then?
2. Most clubs don't have proper barriers around areas outside of the course....but proper signage should be erected warning motorists that balls may fly in their direction (although I'm not sure how much this would deter anyone from driving through.
3. If this is a constant issue for the hole, then maybe the course should do something to prevent errant balls, but also consider that if the zone is residential, you may not have the option to erect a 20' or 30' barrier from the street.

At all costs, the the pro should have enough sense not to allow anyone in. The liability that the club has is tremendous. I would suggest your friend talks to the course management regarding the incident. I don't think that anyone disputes the responsibility your friend has to the motorist, but whether or not the Pro acted in the best interest of patrons of the club. As for the comment of private club members being A$$holes....If you are paying $1K or $100 a year to become a member at a club, I would expect a level of privacy and barrier of security.

[Stretch]

If that guy tries to contact you say "iam not liable contact the course goodbye" your not liable pay nothing!!!

If you really think it's that clear cut, try Googling "personal injury attorney golf" and tell me why so many lawyers would specialize in a field where there is no possibility of monetary recovery?

For a comprehensive (if not right up to date) treatment of potential legal issues on the golf course, try this article. http://www.rossettidevoto.com/Articles/Golf.htm

[Fairway_CY]

I quite often play courses that border roads. Some courses will put a notation on the scorecard that says it is the golfers responsibility... others do not say anything of the sort.

I've hit a few balls out of play over busy roads... but I've been lucky enough NOT to hit a passing vehicle. I have seen others hit vehicles... but I've never seen anybody confronted about it. However, I also believe that it's mandatory for courses bordering roads and/or homes to have some form of liability insurance (with or without the notaition posted on scorecards, signs or whatnot).

CY

[iacas]

The Pro should have never allowed an pissed of individual enter the course.

Who said he was pissed? And it seems to me that asking for only the deductible seemed fair to me. He could have asked for the full amount. In any case, the interaction seems devoid of any real "pissed" actions. He "demanded" information - the OP could have probably said he "insisted" on getting their information.

Let's not make up our opinions based on what you think you read, instead of what was actually typed, which will already vary from the facts of the situation to some degree. Don't take it further from the truth by adding your own (mis)perceptions.

Most clubs don't have proper barriers around areas outside of the course....but proper signage should be erected warning motorists that balls may fly in their direction (although I'm not sure how much this would deter anyone from driving through.

Motorists should not have to worry about such things. And what's a sign going to do - and how is someone going to swerve out of the way of a golf ball if they happened to see one flying towards their car?

At all costs, the the pro should have enough sense not to allow anyone in. The liability that the club has is tremendous.

In the absence of proof (I'm looking at you DFB) that clubs are required to carry liability for issues like this (it's clear to me that's not the law), then I default to "the golfer is responsible." And I see little wrong with what the club pro did.

I don't think that anyone disputes the responsibility your friend has to the motorist, but whether or not the Pro acted in the best interest of patrons of the club.

That depends, I suppose. If you were the club pro, would you rather a patrol car or two showed up to settle the matter?

If you are paying $1K or $100 a year to become a member at a club, I would expect a level of privacy and barrier of security.

Huh? This isn't a matter of privacy or security.

[sam004]

I know the circumstance is different, but it is a simialr situation. Just as a point of discussion.

http://chicagopressrelease.com/news/...lf-ball-injury

http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2...golf-ball.html

Posted 11 February 2010 - 03:59 PM

From the Chicago Tribune

Duffers, beware: Once the snow melts and you take your plaid pants out of storage, if you hit a golf ball that leaves the course, you might be responsible for any injuries.

A DuPage County judge ruled today that a jury should consider whether a golfer was negligent when an errant golf ball hurt someone.

Judge John Elsner said "a golfer owes a duty of ordinary care to persons lawfully on property adjacent to a golf course."

"New York and California have laws that adopt the view that people who purchase homes next to a golf course assume the risk of being hit by an errant golf ball," the judge noted, but no such law exists in Illinois.



As far as being out of line for the club pro, I can understand not wanting to get involved between the motorist and the member.
What's fair ? Most courses I play on have signage that you are responsible for your errant shots.

[jamo]

A couple of thoughts:

If the pro knew that the course had insurance, he (or someone with the appropriate power) could have handled it himself, then talked to the golfers after.
If the pro knew the course did not have insurance, he (or a ranger, or the pro shop manager) should have gone with the man and son to confront the golfers.
If the pro was unsure, he should have called someone who would no.

I just think there is no way a pro should have let two people (pissed off or not) confront two golfer by themselves.

And, seriously, $200 is not that much for denting someone's car with a golf ball. I don't know what your state's insurance policy is, but just think of what would have happened if they had no car insurance.

Lastly, it is kind of terrible how poor the bordering walls are at so many courses.

[jlh1508]

Don't see anything wrong with what the pro did.

It was your friends bad shot that caused damage, why would your friend not be responsible?

[Crey23]

Who said he was pissed? And it seems to me that asking for only the deductible seemed fair to me. He could have asked for the full amount. In any case, the interaction seems devoid of any real "pissed" actions. He "demanded" information - the OP could have probably said he "insisted" on getting their information.

Excuse me if I mis read, or maybe added some common sense into the equation, but I would wager that the gentleman entering the golf course was non too pleased of the situation. I would have to conclude that he was not all happy and giggly asking for the information. And the tone of the OP would lead me to conclude that the guy was pissed...maybe not huffing and puffing, but certainly upset.

As for the security....as a matter of fact, I would have rather had the guys in blue, than an idiot of a Pro. If I come to your office and I asked the receptionist that I needed to speak to moderator bcs he deleted one of my posts, I (you) would trust that she:

1. Called you and alerted you of the situation
2. Called security to ensure the situations does not worsen
3. Prevented my passage to your office unescorted

But the pro did nothing of the sort. He allowed a perfect stranger, into a private club, to move unescorted. The issue here is not that the motorist requested the info form the golfer (He is in his full right to do so), the issue is that the pro allowed him to proceed unescorted. If the man had been armed and situation escalated, what then???? Is the pro also immune of responsibility at this point? Or let me guess, the golfer deserved it for questioning the motorist's intent to collect? I live in South Florida, and I have had acquaintances killed over a freaking parking spot by an angry driver....shot and killed in front of the kids. Are you willing to back up the pro in this situation. Absolutely not!!!!

[jamo]

Excuse me if I mis read, or maybe added some common sense into the equation, but I would wager that the gentleman entering the golf course was noon too pleased of the situation. I would have to conclude that he was not all happy and giggly asking for the information. And the tone of the OP would lead me to conclude that the guy was pissed...maybe not huffing and puffing, but certainly upset.

The OP said he "demanded" their information. Nothing more, nothing less. Conclude what you will.

[Crey23]

The OP said he "demanded" their information. Nothing more, nothing less. Conclude what you will.

If you are "demanding" anything, do you tend to "demand" calmly or would you say you are not pleased or even upset when you make your "demand"?

Let's not bee naive to think that the motorist was jolly about the situation...PLEASE!!!!

[Gioguy21]

If I come to your office and I asked the receptionist that I needed to speak to moderator bcs he deleted one of my posts, I (you) would trust that she...

so, if we're going on assumptions, am i to assume you're sexist for thinking a receptionist is a woman? (dude i'm just bustin balls, i'm not actually serious...just proving a point about taking words out of context)...lol

Pro was out of line for not escorting and at the very least checking to see if insurance was had by the club. country club or not, if he does damage, odds are is he's responsible for it. to me, i'd take that $200 bucks he asked of me, give it to the man and call it a day. $200 bucks beats a lawsuit anyday.

[Crey23]

so, if we're going on assumptions, am i to assume you're sexist for thinking a receptionist is a woman? (dude i'm just bustin balls, i'm not actually serious...just proving a point about taking words out of context)...lol

Spilled my coffee......LOL I am sorry for sounding sexist....at my company we have about 8 receptioinists and they are all women, but that does not prevent any man of being capable of doind the job just as well. Again, I appologize if I offended any make receptionist reading this post!

Pro was out of line for not escorting and at the very least checking to see if insurance was had by the club. country club or not, if he does damage, odds are is he's responsible for it. to me, i'd take that $200 bucks he asked of me, give it to the man and call it a day. $200 bucks beats a lawsuit anyday.

Exactly!!!! I am not exempting the golfer from his/her resposability, but I believe that Pro should have acted professionally and escorted the motorist to ensure a peaceful exchange of information, and in case things got out of had, a neutral third party to recount events. If I were a Pro, I would have done it if only to protect the club from any lawsuites!

[iacas]

Excuse me if I mis read, or maybe added some common sense into the equation, but I would wager that the gentleman entering the golf course was non too pleased of the situation. I would have to conclude that he was not all happy and giggly asking for the information. And the tone of the OP would lead me to conclude that the guy was pissed...maybe not huffing and puffing, but certainly upset.

You know what they say about assuming. I'll leave it at that.

If I come to your office and I asked the receptionist that I needed to speak to moderator bcs he deleted one of my posts, I (you) would trust that she:

Yeah, because me deleting a post (which is well within the rules you agreed to) is exactly the same as

some other guy causing property damage. C'mon.

But the pro did nothing of the sort. He allowed a perfect stranger, into a private club, to move unescorted.

This is a "stranger" who likely had a legal right to determine the person responsible for the damage to his property AND to have the situation rectified (by getting the person's information).

the issue is that the pro allowed him to proceed unescorted.

Perhaps he was the only guy in the shop.

If the man had been armed and situation escalated, what then????

Oh brother. What stops anyone from just shooting or stabbing people? Christ. That's not even worth discussing.

If you are "demanding" anything, do you tend to "demand" calmly or would you say you are not pleased or even upset when you make your "demand"?

I'm quite capable of demanding things in a calm manner. Just the other day you could say I "demanded" that I be given the proper change. I said "Excuse me, I think you shorted me five - I gave you a ten dollar bill." Again, "insisted" and "demanded" and "requested" are, at some level, synonyms. You're attributing FAR too much to a word choice that probably wasn't considered for more than a split second.

Let's not bee naive to think that the motorist was jolly about the situation...PLEASE!!!!

Who said he was? Nobody.

[JML22]

Its not like it was done on purpose though, if there is a parking lot that can get hit by golf balls or a road... you should be wary anyways and almost expect it to happen

[pittpanther]

But the pro did nothing of the sort. He allowed a perfect stranger, into a private club, to move unescorted.

I think you make a pretty good point here. The responsibility of the club pro has nothing to do with "insurance" and "responsibility," but everything to do with restricting access to a private club. The man should have been asked to show ID, and then told to sit down and wait while someone at the club (maybe not the club pro, maybe a manager) retrieved the players and brought them back to the clubhouse.

[Crey23]

Iacas, dude I know what I signed up for....

I'm not extrapolating the situation (nor assuming ) the situation...but you have to admit that the Pro could have haddled the situation better.

As for the little story about your receptionist you know I am right

[Fairway_CY]

so, if we're going on assumptions, am i to assume you're sexist for thinking a receptionist is a woman? (dude i'm just bustin balls, i'm not actually serious...just proving a point about taking words out of context)...lol

Totally off topic... but check your PM's. I messaged you about a week ago and haven't heard back. Just a heads up.

CY

[Shorty]

The irritating thing I'm finding in this thread is the apparent sentiment that:

A. Golfer = nice pleasant, considerate person
B. Motorist = aggressive, potentially murderous, rampaging pissed off madman.

I really fail to see why someone would think that the driver should not feel entitled to redress. Moreso, I find the abject stupidity of the idea that a lack of intent absolves one of responsibility quite staggering.
I mean.. just imagine these morons at the 19th hole of this leafy CC. "Did you hit the car on pupose?" "No" "Oh, well, it's not your fault. Don't worry about it."
I will not start on the patronising comment in the OP about how "We" pay the pro's wages.