Are you a hitter or a swinger?

[HytrewQasdfg]

How can a hitter not rely on "swing"? Conceptually I can see how the wrists and arms would play into "hitting", but by my understanding the shoulders and hips have a small path compared to the path the wrists take and really only rotate about their axis, generating the centrifugal force that the arms and wrists build on.

My understanding is it is the same physics that power a whip. Your hand holding a whip only moves a small amount at a slow speed, yet it is enough to get the tip of the whip going faster than the speed of sound (which creates the crack noise).

Your body only rotates a small way (at a slow speed), but it is enough to "whip" your arms and club forward at a much faster speed. A "swinger" uses that whipping motion to generate the power for their swing speed. A hitter relys on the the muscles in their arms and shoulders to generate their swing speed.

[sean_miller]

I voted for #5.

I suspect I'm a swinger who happens to have a compact swing. As long as it's relatively repeatable, what category it falls into is irrelevant. I wouldn't even have voted, but then I noticed the OP added an option that captures my thoughts on the matter.

[Nick Clearwater]

I would argue that EVERYONE is a combination...assuming you are trying to hit the ball with power. Unfortunately, this is one of the pieces in the book that should be reconsidered.

[B-Con]

My understanding is it is the same physics that power a whip. Your hand holding a whip only moves a small amount at a slow speed, yet it is enough to get the tip of the whip going faster than the speed of sound (which creates the crack noise).

OK, I think I had a poor understanding of what a "swinger" is.

[senorchipotle]

it honestly depends on where and what i'm hitting. if i want to blast a drive with a big draw or a power fade, you bet i'm knocking the hell out of the ball. or if it's a long iron off the tee. but in the fairway i'm definitely a swinger. trying to hit the ball off the ground is the fastest way to a divot that starts 5 inches behind your ball. but if i want to get spin within 100 yards or so, i do hit the ball and try to take a big divot. but in order to be a consistent hitter, you must be a good swinger. so i reckon all the guys who you listed as the top hitters will necessarily be great swingers as well.

[misty_mountainhop]

Hmmm, let me see.

Swingers include: Geoff Ogilvy, Vijay Singh, Fred Couples, Jack Nicklaus…

Hitters include: JB Holmes, Kenny Perry, KJ Choi, Lee Trevino…


With the exception of Super Mex, count me in with aiming to be a swinger.

[martytilma]

Holy crap! Too much technical jargon for me. I couldn't begin to describe my or anyone's swing using technical terms like most can. If I had to guess, I would say I'm a "Swinger". Just don't let my wife know that!

[iacas]

Hitters tend to be more consistent and require little tidying up. Swingers can be a bit more brilliant but require constant maintenance.

[senorchipotle]

Hitters tend to be more consistent and require little tidying up. Swingers can be a bit more brilliant but require constant maintenance.

please elaborate. you've piqued my interest.

[iacas]

please elaborate. you've piqued my interest.

Just a general concept or feeling. Swingers rely more on timing, for one. In reality, as was already said, everyone's a mix of both. And most players have more "hitter" than "swinger" in them, particularly lately with the changes in golf equipment that we've seen.

I have this page bookmarked because Richie put into words what I've always felt, roughly. http://3jack.blogspot.com/2009/05/un...-part-iii.html And Homer Kelley himself said:

Hitting and Swinging seem equally efficient. The difference is in the players. If strong - Hit - if quick - Swing. If both - do either. Or both.

Of course, "strong" is relative. I'm probably equally strong and quick and I'd say my swing is (totally guessing now) 65% hitter 35% swinger. And it probably changes slightly day to day or even shot to shot.

P.S. I remember conversations like this many years ago. They revolved around "do you pull the club with the left arm/hand or do you push the club with the right arm/hand?" As you can imagine, "pull" methodologists were swingers, "push" methodologists were hitters. I do like the point too that most people are probably better served as hitters because they're likely using their dominant arm.

[Stretch]

Honestly don't know.

By the definition given, I'd guess I'm more of a hitter who's trying to become more of a swinger.

As I understand the definiton a swinger is someone that uses the body trunk to power the swing (hips & back). A hitter is some that uses their arms and shoulders to power the swing.

[Stretch]

OK, I understand it all a bit better now thanks to some quality time on YouTube with Jeff Mann. The "How To Power The Golf Swing" videos lay it all out in TGM terms. Here are the first bits of the respective swinger and hitter analyses, you'll find the rest of the chunks in the YouTube sidebar. I am mostly a hitter.

[1fy67]

Gripping tightly, can you use your arms and hands only and move the clubhead 100mph? Okay, throw in body rotation to keep up with the arms/hands. I don't think you could get to 100mph doing it that way. I don't think anyone can get their fastest clubhead speed by actually trying to swing the clubhead with their arms/hands. So folks who do that and who have fast clubhead speeds and are accurate and make consistent impact MUST be allowing for "some" freely unhinging release at impact. 99% of beginners who never take a lesson will use these muscles to swing the club. Once grooved in this way, it's extremely difficult to switch to a free release.

[tiger1242]

I know I'm a swinger, I'm 6' 150 lbs so if I where relying on muscle mass to "hit" the ball I wouldn't be very smart. I'm quite flexible and like to swing through the ball, I generate good club head speed and am longer than most of the people I play with (with the exception of a 6'7 260 lbs guy who is a "hitter") so it works well for me. I do think as I get closer to the green I tend to be more of a hitter, focussing on taking more of a divot and putting some spin on the ball, but in general I'm swinging.

Also I'm not sure if it is very beneficial to try and relate to either the hitter or the swinger, many people who have studied Homer's book have come to the conclusion that the best way to swing is a corporation of both. And in fact some instructors I have read suggest you skip this part of the book completely as it will likely confuse and maybe hurt you as you try to pick a side.

To me everything I've ever read about swinging a club (or baseball bat, or hockey stick, or polo mallet, or kicking a ball, ect...) is that your swing is what you control, you don't adjust it to the ball, rather the ball just "gets in the way" of you swinging your particular stick. And this seems to go more a long with the "swinger" philosophy.

[Tax Man Golfeth]

Driving to me feels like chopping down a tree. My right hand tends to rotate to a very strong grip... behind the club driving into the ball. Keeping the right hand on top of the club does not feel intuitive. Irons feel like more of a swinging motion the shorter they get and a "normal" strong grip is easier to maintain. That's just me, and I'm still learning.

[Odogesq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grantc79

None

The longer the club the harder it is.

I lose quite a bit of distance hitting due to not being as efficient at it. But that said I am a lot more accurate with it.

Interesting thread.  I started as a hitter and switched to swinging the club.  Unlike many people who have commented thus far, though, my accuracy actually improved when I started "swinging" as opposed to "hitting the ball."  My distances also improved.  Anyone else have a similar experience?  It just seemed to me that when I was hitting at the ball I was able to make contact but couldn't control the club face because I was using too many muscles in my arms and shoulders trying to control the club as it came through the downswing.

Also, is anyone familiar with whether golf clubs were designed for swingers v. hitters?  IMHO, golf clubs were meant to be swung, it just seems that way based on the lighter shaft and heavier club heads.  Everything has been so much easier since I started "swinging," ranging from hitting the sweet spot on the club face more consistently, to distance, and even accuracy.

[petermccarthy]

Interesting topic - and based on the very clear description I think I would have to say that I started out as a swinger but can see how over the last few years as I have got older that more "hitter" characteristics are beginning to creep in! Not sure, of course what that says about me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by HytrewQasdfg

Description of difference between swinger and hitter from the interent:

None

[1fy67]

As I see it, a body swinger's body rotation is where speed of the clubhead is initiated. Some add arm drop for more speed, sense of timing, or it just fits their idea of a golf swing. When I say "arm" I mean the part of especially the left arm (rh golfer)  from the elbows to the shoulders. Swingers also seem to allow the clubhead to release more naturally: the part from the elbows to the hands. Using your body to generate speed requires a healthy body. I suffer from chronic back pain and stiffness, but I am more of a body swinger. If my back is sore or stiff before or becomes so during the round, I will subconsciously begin hitting with my arms and hands instead of using my body rotation to generate speed and shot shape, and shots begin to wonder off and I'll lose a lot of distance. Contact suffers too. No one likes to use muscles that are sore or stiff, so other muscles take over. For a swinger, it's usually the smaller muscles of the arms and hands. Because I am bent over at address more than someone who purposefully uses their arms/hands in the swing, I cannot generate clubhead speed from this posture with my arms. (Arm swingers (not arm hitters) stand taller and raise their hands a lot higher at the top of their backswing because the taller they stand the more they can wind up further, and the higher their hands go in turn allows them to store more energy as they use gravity to help generate clubhead speed on the way down.)

I believe that the more the golfer allows the clubhead to release freely (the part from the elbows to the hands), the more consistent, the farther, and the higher the ball will fly. Trick is to know what in their swing, other than the hands (elbows to fingers), that will allow them to shape their shots. This really is where golf gets fun for me. How do you shape shots with accuracy and consistency without *actively* using your hands?