Pete Dye, Overrated

[BugDude]

I have only played one Dye course and will be playing the one right next to it this summer, so my basis is pretty limited here.  I don't think he ignored the natural layout on the one I played, he just manufactures something around it that is in some ways out of this world. I loved it because it was so unique. You have to go into a Dye course in my opinion with the mindset that you are about to play something very unique and just have fun with it.

I've played a handful of Dye courses in various parts of the US (several of them numerous times) and the only consistent theme for me is I've never had fun playing any of them.

The absolute most fun I've ever had playing golf has consistently been at The Homestead, The Old Course, in Hot Springs Virginia.  I've played all three courses there many times (The Upper Cascades - Championship Course, The Lower Cascades, and The Old Course) and The Old Course has always consistently been the most enjoyable course anywhere for me.  It was built in 1892 with updates by William S. Flynn and Rees Jones.  It takes advantage of the natural mountain terrain and dynamics.  At no point on any hole there have I ever thought "this hole would be better if."  When I finished rounds there, I was surprised it was over and was left wishing there were more to play.  Dye courses always seem to me like the round will never end soon enough and I'm glad to see it in the rear view mirror on my way out.

[sopel10]

I've enjoyed some.  Most of the time, i'll stay away from them unless they are like a top attraction, at which point i'll play it once just to see what the fuss is about.  Most of the time, it's too much.  I like simplistic designs and he is far from it.

[cfritchie]

I'm not a big of Pete Dye courses, with the exception of Piatue Golf Resort in Vegas...I really dig this layout.

One of the courses I play on a regular basis is Stonebridge Ranch - The Dye Course in McKinney. I don't mind difficult or challenging, but what I don't like is when you miss the fairway or green slightly and there is almost zero chance of finding your ball due to the type/height of native grass. It is impossible to play a true round of golf at the Dye course because going back to the tee and hitting a second ball is just not an option due to pace of play.

[Big C]

I've played 3 Dye courses - PGA La Quinta, Ruffled Feathers & Whistling Straits. All were beautiful courses and all were tough but (mostly) fair. I agree that there is nothing more frustrating then being punished for a good shot because of fluky course design, but I did not have that experience at any of the above.

[Aguirre]

I think I've played three, Harbour Town, Avalon Lakes, and Pete Dye Golf Club in Bridgeport, West Virginia.  I really enjoyed both, so I can't say too many bad things about his designs other than he could lay off the visual intimidation.  And I do agree that he often punishes "good" shots, but not necessarily great shots.  And that's fairly annoying.  Particularly on Par 5 lay-up areas.  That's supposed to be one of the easier shots in golf.  It's like he's sitting there grinning as he lays out the course thinking "Not so fast, hacker."

Didn't Nicklaus do a redesign on Harbour Town?  I'm not sure about that.  I wonder what changes he made.

Of those three, Pete Dye is definitely the most difficult, unless you're struggling off the tee.  God help you if you're driving it crooked at Harbour Town.

[PA Golf Info]

Iron Valley in PA is one hot course..... Love that place. Great mix of open links on the front 9 and then the deep woods on the back 9. It is the best of both worlds.

[Aguirre]

Iron Valley in PA is one hot course..... Love that place. Great mix of open links on the front 9 and then the deep woods on the back 9. It is the best of both worlds.

Is that part of Penn National?

[PA Golf Info]

Is that part of Penn National?

It is part of what is called the Raspberry Trail that is a bunch of high end courses in VA, MA and PA. Penn National is in that as well but I think they are under different owner ship.  If you ever get to PA you have to play it.

[stealthduffer]

I've played 3 Pete Dye courses.  Used to play at Tamarack in Illinois pretty frequently back in the mid '80's.  Enjoyed playing there but it is pretty much a run of the mill parkland course.  I liked it because my wife could play there without getting discouraged.  I've played the River course at Kingsmill - to be honest it was so cold and windy I don't remember much about it.  And, I've played the River Course at Virginia Tech a couple of times.  I actually like the VT course - probably wouldn't want to play it every day but for the occasional trip there I find it fun.  Maybe because it's a day trip with my buddies but we do like it.

[WUTiger]

I've played 3 Pete Dye courses.  Used to play at Tamarack in Illinois pretty frequently back in the mid '80's.  Enjoyed playing there but it is pretty much a run of the mill parkland course. ...

I played Tamarack for the first time in Spring 1971 with my junior college golf team. It was fairly open at the time.

Fast-forward to 2002: and I'm moving back to the St. Louis area, and I run across the Tamarack sign while looking at real estate. Lots more trees have popped up in 30 years. Anyway, Tamarack becomes my unofficial "home course" my first couple of years back.

As stealth says, it's a nice parkland course, but you have to play it a few times to be able to "see what you're looking at." On several holes, you're "hitting into a funnel." The trees pinch in around the landing area, so you can be on the edge of the fairway and have your approach partially blocked by overhanging branches. Other things to watch:

• No. 3: 515 yd. par 5: Open around the long, wavy green, but someone getting on in two at the wrong end can easily three-putt.
• No. 9: 320 yd. Par 4: Uphill, dogleg right - a pulled shot with driver can easily run OB. And, green has reverse terrace - back is lower than front.
• No. 13: 420 yd. Par 4: has ridge in front of green that obscures how deep the green is - about 35 yards. Serious chance to underclub.
• No. 15: 305 yd. Par 4: Shot comes off a hill to a green with a lake to the left. Driving the green is possible distance-wise, but if you miss the tree-lined fairway you'll struggle for bogie.

A fun course - I've shot in the 80s several times. But, there's always a hole or two where you just didn't see what you were looking at.

[isukgolf]

I have played several of his courses ... I like them ... Don't love them ... But enjoyed playing them ... I did notice that he like the ladies ... One hole the ladies tees where close to 100 yards closer ....

[Strandly]

I played a course by this guy recently and it was different I guess.  I didn't mind that most of the greens were separated from the fairways by rough but the sloped fairways that wouldn't hold a drive and greens that funneled into sand traps became tedious after a while.  I probably won't play there again just because the design felt gimmicky and overused.

[atxpkrgolf]

Disagree. I've only played like 10 of em that I know of and although they are hard, I certainly wouldn't call the. Tricked up or unfair. Have played Whistling straits (straits course) Austin Country Club Tpc oaks San Antonio Oak tree Natl (Edmond) Oak tree ctry club 3courses at Paiute resort outside Vegas Black wolf run meadows and valleys Oak tree natl the toughest by far and also my favorite with Straits course next

[zipazoid]

Heh, I guess I have been away for a while. I was going to post my thoughts on PD courses so I researched this thread first. I posted to it 2 years ago -

http://thesandtrap.com/t/39214/pete-dye-overrated/36#post_681649

[Dave2512]

I've only played one and it's here in Brighton CO, Riverdale Dunes. I like it biggest problem is the course is busy. Really nothing about the course stands out other than the scrub surrounding the course is brutal if you hit a ball in the there.

[SweetSpot]

I play at Stonebridge Dye in TX. I absolutely love it. It's a 77.3/143 rating so it's a wonderful test. I think it's fun shooting low on a hard course than low on an easy course. I see how he can be overrated to a point. But I've never played a dye course that I wouldn't recommend to any golfer who enjoys the trip around a test! :)

[atxpkrgolf]

I play at Stonebridge Dye in TX. I absolutely love it. It's a 77.3/143 rating so it's a wonderful test. I think it's fun shooting low on a hard course than low on an easy course. I see how he can be overrated to a point. But I've never played a dye course that I wouldn't recommend to any golfer who enjoys the trip around a test! :)

Send me a PM and let's tee it up sometime. A +4 is pretty darn stout, I'll take a stroke a hole :-D