Officially Fixed my push fade, for real this time....

[Shanks A Million]

Inside out (relative to the face) will produce a draw. Why do you keep saying inside out = fade or slice?

Wait, what? Oh yeah, sorry, not been sleeping well lately. Lets see here...

If the ball starts straight, then fades, it's an over the top slice. A ball cannot start straight and then curve right with a straight or inside out club path. So, is that right, or wrong? I think that's right... I'm confused. Inside out swing can produce a push fade, straight push, or a draw/hook starting anywhere from right to left. No arguments there. I said that a ball that starts straight, then curves right cannot possibly be hit by an inside out or straight swing. If the ball were to start straight then fade, it means the swing must be outside in, right? If the swing is inside out, and the ball starts straight, it must curve left. He's talking about the push fade, which to me generally means a straight path with an open face. Zeph and myself both (wrongly) associated that term with a face that is merely open, when in fact, the OP said his ball starts nearly straight, then curves right. My concern is that the term "push fade" is generally going to be percieved as an open face with a nearly straight path. Wow, I'm confused now...

That's the first time I've ever heard that. Fade is just a less severe fade, and vise-versa. You can hit a fade with a two degree (relative to target) out to in swing. And you can hit a slice with a two degree (relative to target) in to out swing.

Yeah, haha, sorry, that's just my own anal retentive terminology. I do strongly believe that the terms should be standardized. Any time a term is open to interpretation, you're in for trouble. Think about the plethora of legal documents with words like, "a well regulated militia being essential to the security of a free state," or "all that is necessary and proper." Wouldn't it just be easier to say, "citizens may own guns" and, "federal law has precedence over state law." Keeping the language unambiguous is important.

[jamo]

Yeah, haha, sorry, that's just my own anal retentive terminology. I do strongly believe that the terms should be standardized. Any time a term is open to interpretation, you're in for trouble. Think about the plethora of legal documents with words like, "a well regulated militia being essential to the security of a free state," or "all that is necessary and proper." Wouldn't it just be easier to say, "citizens may own guns" and, "federal law has precedence over state law." Keeping the language unambiguous is important.

Alright, I guess I see what you mean then. Most of the golfers in the world that play a fade (a controlled left to right curving shot) swing in to out (relative to the target), with the club face open to the plane. And I would venture to guess most of the golfers that struggle with a slice (a more violent left to right curving shot) tend to swing out to in (relative to the target), with the club face open to the target but either open, square, or closed to the path.

[iacas]

Wow, I'm confused now...

FWIW, I was referring to this:

The term fade, to most implies that the swingpath was straight or inside out.

A fade is just a ball that curves to the right (for a righty) but not "enough" to call it a slice. That's it. You can hit push fades, straight fades, and pull fades. Let's not get too caught up in re-inventing definitions. A slice is a fade that curves a lot. A fade is a small version of a slice.

[Shanks A Million]

A fade is just a ball that curves to the right (for a righty) but not "enough" to call it a slice. That's it. You can hit push fades, straight fades, and pull fades. Let's not get too caught up in re-inventing definitions. A slice is a fade that curves a lot. A fade is a small version of a slice.

OK, now I'm not confused. I guess my real problem is that so many people who slice refer to it as a fade. Especially in light of the fact they say it's a fade that's ruining their game, you'd think it would be a slice.

[Zeph]

Let's just get this out of the way now.

Here are the nine possible ball flights, not counting weird shots where you top it or something, or in strong winds.



The first word in a combined ball flight, like push -fade or pull -draw, tells us where the ball starts , relative to your alignment. This means that if someone align straight at the target and the ball starts off to the right of the target, that is a push, and is caused by an open clubface. From there, the ball can keep going straight, making it just a push, draw to the left, making it a push-draw, or fade to the left, making it a push-fade. If it turns sharply and goes 50 yards to the right, we can call it a push-slice.

The same applies to all shots. A shot called straight-fade means the ball starts straight ahead, relative to your alignment, and then curves to the right. A pull-draw starts to the left and draws even more left.

Slice = a bigger fade (curving more to the right)
Hook = a bigger draw (curving more to the left)

Slice/fade and hook/draw both have the same characteristics, but the terms slice/hook are used when the ball curves a lot, like many beginners struggle with. The amount of sidespin is determined by the disparity between the clubface angle and swingpath angle. The larger disparity between the two, the more sidespin the ball will get.
If it is a fade or slice is not really all that important, it just tells us about the disparity between clubface angle and swingpath angle, as long as the ball curves either way, we know the relationhship between clubface angle and swingpath angle.

A shot starting straight and curving 10 yards right, and a shot starting straight and curving 30 yards right are caused by the same swing mechanics (square clubface and out-in swingpath), but the latter one with more disparity.

Since the OP wrote push-fade , I suggested closing the clubface a hint (not to where it is closed to your alignment), and see what happened. If the ball flight really was a straight-fade, the clubface is already square and the swingpath is going out-in. Closing the clubface could still help, but that would be more of a bandaid fix that can be inconsistent.

[Valleygolfer]

Since the OP wrote

Exactly. I have been working on mechanics and simply closing the clubface did not work very well for me. I did that initially and I wished it was that simple of a fix.

[Dad-2-3]

Ha, you'd think, but even I have videos of myself hitting with a stick, and still misaligned.

You sir are indeed one talented individual!

Curiousity has me asking how? Apologies to the OP for the hijack. This thread has me researching a good camera to film my swing. Our old camcorder doesn't have the FPS to document a swing like I would like.

[Shanks A Million]

You sir are indeed one talented individual!

It's quite easy, you just get used to your feet being so far from the stick, and you slowly keep setting up farther and farther to one direction. I always make sure now that my left foot appears to be farther from the stick, as it is toed out a bit.

[Dad-2-3]

It's quite easy, you just get used to your feet being so far from the stick, and you slowly keep setting up farther and farther to one direction. I always make sure now that my left foot appears to be farther from the stick, as it is toed out a bit.

Hmmmm. I hit a ball and then back off and go through a shortened/mini preshot routine with every ball. So my set up is fresh every time I hit a ball making sure both feet are the same distance from the stick. I used to hit many balls in a row with the same club, but found that I would do the same as what you said you used to do. I would slowly compensate for a consistent miss by moving my feet around not paying attention to my alignment. Next thing you know I would look down and be aimed 30-45 degrees from my stick.