Cheaters you have see on the golf course, tournaments or otherwise

[mcanadiens]

6 minutes ago, Lihu said:

True, recreational golf could be enjoyed without having to adhere to rules that could make life miserable for everyone. However, if you compete, then you really should know exactly what rules you broke and how to deal with it if the round was needed for handicap or something else.

Yeah I was a little sloppy with how I originally worded that. While I was keeping up the HI, it was clean to the best of my knowledge. My point was that I hardly ever play with anyone else that has ever tried to keep a handicap or compete for that matter.

 

[Fourputt]

On 9/10/2010, 9:05:07, majorchamp said:

Here is the place to talk about situations where you have seen and even exposed cheaters on the golf course. Even if its unintentional cheating (someone didn't know the rules and kept going), feel free to mention it.

 

 

On 9/10/2010, 5:46:42, 2bGood said:

For thre record breaking the rules and cheating are not the same. Cheating requires deception. I rarely play a round with out breaking the rules of golf - 1' gimmee are my weakness. However as all our playing partners agree to this, this is not cheating.

This^^

Cheating involves an intent to defraud.  Cheating is always deliberately breaking a rule or rules for some personal gain.  Cheating is always attempted out of sight or view of those who are being cheated. 

A player can break a rule through ignorance or misunderstanding and it's not cheating.  That's a situation that we have all been in and we have all witnessed.  I've never met anyone who had studied and learned every rule before he ever stepped out onto a golf course, so pretty much everyone who plays the game is in that group.  However, most of them don't cheat - they just don't know what's right.  

I also have known guys to break a rule deliberately, but it still was not cheating because they weren't competing or returning scores for handicap - it's just how they choose to enjoy their version of golf.  They weren't playing for gain and they were open and honest about it - they weren't being sneaky or doing anything surreptitiously.

Such breaches can only be cheating when done with a deliberate intent to gain a prize or to elevate themselves in the eyes of their peers.  If there is no intent, and if there is nothing gained by the act, and nobody is harmed, then it's not cheating, it's just playing a game by a different set of rules than those required for playing a proper round of golf.

To answer the question in the OP - no I've never witnessed anyone cheat on the course for money or for placement in a competition.  I've seen rules broken unintentionally in tournaments, and when I told them what they did wrong, they were both embarrassed and apologetic about it.  They also accepted the penalty that they had incurred with good grace. 

 I've known one sandbagger, and it was so obvious that the handicap committee came down on him halfway through the season and adjusted his handicap to his tournament scores and it was done.  Even he didn't cheat on the course in tournaments, he just submitted padded scores about 5 times a week between competitions.

[Fourputt]

On 9/17/2015, 6:56:14, Braivo said:

This past weekend a group was letting us play through. I hit a shot that skirted a water hazard. A guy in the group ahead said he saw it and pointed me to a ball just on the edge of the hazard in deep rough. I played it, only to find out on the green that it was not actually my ball.

 

Now in the past I would've just played on pretending it was my ball under the justification that it was "close enough, and that guy said he saw it."

 

This time I took the two shot penalty as I was supposed to and moved on. This is my first year playing 100% by the rules, but it is also the first time I am keeping an official handicap or played in any competitive golf. The only person I was cheating before was myself.

 

I don't care if people cheat when they aren't competing, if that makes them feel better, fine. But not competitive golf, that fires me up.

While I applaud you for doing what you thought was right, according to your story, you actually did not follow procedure correctly.  After playing a wrong ball, you not only incur the 2 stroke penalty under Rule 15-3, but you are required to correct your mistake.  That means going back and either finding your ball, or proceeding under Rule 27-1 for a lost ball (or Rule 26-1 if it's virtually certain that the ball is in the water hazard), and taking the additional penalty.

[Lihu]

1 hour ago, Fourputt said:

I've known one sandbagger, and it was so obvious that the handicap committee came down on him halfway through the season and adjusted his handicap to his tournament scores and it was done.  Even he didn't cheat on the course in tournaments, he just submitted padded scores about 5 times a week between competitions.

Padded Scores? Well, I learned a new golf term today!

Actually, what if he just had a bad putting day 5 days in a row before a tournament?

[Jaymancds]

My dad cheats anytime we play.  I am a fair amount better than him so he just plays for the heck of it.  Makes it fun for us.  He has this lucky streak going of never having to chip, or putt from the fringe.  I still am amazed at how he does it.

[Fourputt]

37 minutes ago, Lihu said:

Padded Scores? Well, I learned a new golf term today!

Actually, what if he just had a bad putting day 5 days in a row before a tournament?

Over the course of 4 tournaments in a row???  R..i..g..h..t.... 

[Lihu]

Just now, Fourputt said:

Over the course of 4 tournaments in a row???  R..i..g..h..t.... 

Wow, what a coincidence!

[natureboy]

Mostly what I see on the course is playing lost / ob balls with the drop and one stroke deal. I have personally taken Mulligans in a friendly game when I was starting with the game, but would not have submitted that for HCP.

One guy I got paired up with hit it really far, but I was a bit straighter and I think my iron play was a little stronger. He hit a few drives into the bushes that looked like goners, but were found. Wasn't tracking his score and wasn't monitoring, but his jerky banter started to indicate he was trying to psych me out somehow. On one drive he hit a wicked slice and 'found' a ball that was nowhere near where I had seen it go into the bushes. So now his antics just made me laugh inside and I assumed most of the previous found balls were actually lost. On the last tee he rattled the coins in his pocket while I was teeing off (he hadn't the rest of the round so it wasn't possibly a 'bad habit'), and I hit a perfect drive over the bunker on the inside of the dogleg. He sliced into the woods. Poetic justice.

Another person I was paired with hit a drive to some thick rough in wet conditions. There was no bounce and I advised he hit a provisional. He declined and dropped when he couldn't find the plugged ball.

My biggest broken rules are that I will sometimes hit a practice repeat / alternative shot while still playing my first ball for a number. Once this summer playing on a tougher unfamiliar course from the tips, I hit into woods and hit provisional. When I got to the location of the first tee shot to see if I could find it, I discovered it was in a lateral hazard (stakes were not visible until up close). I should have played the first ball with a drop and was lying extra with the other. So I finished the hole with the first ball and used it for my personal, unofficial handicap that I use to track my 'progress' - or lack thereof. However, I haven't included the lower HCP that 16 differential made to my index number on this site nor would I if I happened to be in a competition. Or should I? Maybe that would be more 'correct' in the spirit of fair competition?

Edited December 4, 2015 by natureboy

[Braivo]

3 hours ago, Fourputt said:

While I applaud you for doing what you thought was right, according to your story, you actually did not follow procedure correctly.  After playing a wrong ball, you not only incur the 2 stroke penalty under Rule 15-3, but you are required to correct your mistake.  That means going back and either finding your ball, or proceeding under Rule 27-1 for a lost ball (or Rule 26-1 if it's virtually certain that the ball is in the water hazard), and taking the additional penalty.

Yes, I was aware of this. Knowing that the 2 stroke penalty would put me at ESC for handicap purposes I chose not to hold up play by returning to the fairway to replay for the lost ball. I picked up and moved on. 

[Lihu]

39 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Yes, I was aware of this. Knowing that the 2 stroke penalty would put me at ESC for handicap purposes I chose not to hold up play by returning to the fairway to replay for the lost ball. I picked up and moved on. 

Plus, the really painful ones are the distance penalties where the number of strokes are open ended.

For HC ESC is fine, but for a competitive situation, you count everything for stroke play.

[CoachB25]

Sad story but wanted to share.  I played with a local guy at my course this past spring.  We were both singles and so, shared a round.  He typically golfs with another group but was late for his tee time and they had departed.  Anyway, we played and I noticed he sometimes left a stroke off here and there.  It didn't matter to me since we were not playing for money.  I didn't think much of it then and had forgotten it until now.  A buddy asked me if I had heard about what happened to this guy.  I had not.  He forgot how to drive home.  Such a sad story.  He has dementia and so will now be done with golf. 

[Braivo]

1 hour ago, Lihu said:

Plus, the really painful ones are the distance penalties where the number of strokes are open ended.

For HC ESC is fine, but for a competitive situation, you count everything for stroke play.

Yeah, if this was a competitive round I would have been in real trouble. Sitting 5 in the fairway on a par 4 with the same difficult approach I just dumped / lost. 

[Lihu]

32 minutes ago, Braivo said:

Yeah, if this was a competitive round I would have been in real trouble. Sitting 5 in the fairway on a par 4 with the same difficult approach I just dumped / lost. 

A playing partner hit two balls into the pond before taking his lateral from the shoreline and hitting the very start of the fairway using a 7i. Given his hook on subsequent holes, it was a wise decision. His score on the hole was 12 using irons all the way to avoid the pond that lined the hole. He was happy once he holed out. He carded the 12 and shot 10 over his normal score, the computer spat out the score the first time he entered it.

[inthehole]

I play with some guys who are way too liberal with the gimme's ... for me it's grip length max - it's pretty much a tap in & I've never seen a regular golfer miss a 10 inch putt  - I'm comfortable giving that to anyone I know that's a decent player.

The one rule I knowingly break is when my ball lands in a footprint of a bunker ... happens seemingly every other time I find myself in a bunker on the crappy mini's I play that nobody rakes.  I feel I should not be penalized for someone else's carelessness.   I rake & place closest to the point where the ball was at rest.     I sense the rules police lining up ... yes, I do proudly post my scores for hcp while doing this one known infraction.

[Lihu]

1 minute ago, inthehole said:

I play with some guys who are way too liberal with the gimme's ... for me it's grip length max - it's pretty much impossible to miss a 10 inch putt - I"m comfortable giving that to anyone I know that's a decent player.

The one rule I knowingly break is when my ball lands in a footprint of a bunker ... happens practically every time I find myself in a bunker on the crappy mini's I play that nobody rakes.  I feel I should not be penalized for someone else's carelessness.   I rake & place closest to the point where the ball was at rest.    And yes, as I sense the rules police lining up ... I do proudly post my scores for hcp while doing this one known infraction.

 

Since you only play for fun, there's no point nitpicking. . .but. . .

I sometimes end up with an extra stroke for footprints in bunkers, and my son missed a 1 foot putt once.

It happens. . .

[Fourputt]

2 minutes ago, Lihu said:

 

Since you only play for fun, there's no point nitpicking. . .but. . .

I sometimes end up with an extra stroke for footprints in bunkers, and my son missed a 1 foot putt once.

It happens. . .

I missed an 8" putt in a Men's club match once, and I was a 10 handicap at the time.  I've also hit from many a footprint in bunkers - just part of the game when you play public courses most of your life.  After all bunkers aren't called hazards just for fun.  No guarantees.

[jbishop15]

There's this guy in his early 70s who I played in the dog fight with. Our dog fight is okay with gimmies, but they've been banned in the past, and every time it's because of this one dude. 

I remember once we were on the eighth hole, and he had a five foot downhill putt that broke at least eight inches. He walked up to it, and picked it up, and went on to the next hole. I was so stunned that I didn't even say anything to him. 

On the very next hole, I'm on the green in two about 70 feet away from the hole. I read the putt (well, as much as you can when it's that far away), and with the pin still in, I hit the putt. The putt, unbelievably, hit the pin and fell in for a birdie three. 

This guy turns to me and tells me that I just incurred a two-stroke penalty. I told him that we'll call his gimmie from five feet away on the last hole and my 70 foot birdie putt even, unless he wanted to report both of them to the guys at the end of the round. He decided to let it go. 

[Dave2512]

The only cheating I've seen was men's league guys taking skins money they didn't really earn. Some of it was just ignorance. I played with a guy that hit balls OB before finally cranking a really long shot on the hole that happened to be a money hole for longest drive. Nobody would have bettered his shot because it was crazy long and we were one of the last groups. But it took three attempts to get it there and being it was hit 5th damn stroke with penalties he really didn't deserve it.

I've seen guys mark birdie or putting their name on the marker for longest putt after a mulligan and those take from the league pot so someone lost money. Stuff like that. Can't say I've ever encountered a sandbagger. Most golf so poorly their scores are "adjusted" the other way.