Should Viewers Be Able to Call in Rules Violations

[cougar978]

Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith

What if someone watches a highlight 2 years later of an event and noticed that a penalty was missed and calls it in.  Should that player be DQ'ed 2 years later?

If I recall the rules correctly, all scores are considered final after the close of competition (and verification by the tournament committee).

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith

What if someone watches a highlight 2 years later of an event and noticed that a penalty was missed and calls it in.  Should that player be DQ'ed 2 years later?

Answered already. See the post one above mine.

A link to the video is here . Camilo only moves the impediments after he notices that the ball is going to come back to the same area. Clearly he didn't "know" the rule but his intent is obvious (not that intent matters here either).

[JetFan1983]

I voted yes. I think it's pretty cool that I can call in a rules violation for a PGA Tour Event and have it actually be heard. Now if only the refs at NBA games would listen to me when I angrily gesticulate the traveling motion after a BS no-call!

[Deryck Griffith]

Originally Posted by cougar978

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith

What if someone watches a highlight 2 years later of an event and noticed that a penalty was missed and calls it in.  Should that player be DQ'ed 2 years later?

If I recall the rules correctly, all scores are considered final after the close of competition (and verification by the tournament committee).

If there is some sort of time limit rule i.e. 24 hrs as you suggested Erik to call in the rule infraction, then I absolutely vote yes.  To be honest, I wish I could do the same in other sports a which pretty much, brings us as "viewers" closer towards the game which when you really think about it, is cool.

I like Camillo and have absolutely nothing against him as a player but the rules are the rules and what he did was Careless.  Subsequent to his DQ'ing, the hope is that other players will not make the same mistake which is the sole reason for penalizing in the first place...

If a viewer feels the need to call it in, then by all means do so.  The one question I have though is what if that individual who called it in didn't like Camillo and did so because of that and wouldn't have done the same for someone that he/her really liked?

Originally Posted by iacas

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith

What if someone watches a highlight 2 years later of an event and noticed that a penalty was missed and calls it in.  Should that player be DQ'ed 2 years later?

Answered already. See the post one above mine.

A link to the video is here. Camilo only moves the impediments after he notices that the ball is going to come back to the same area. Clearly he didn't "know" the rule but his intent is obvious (not that intent matters here either).

[sacm3bill]

Originally Posted by The Road Dog

... players are responsible enough to police themselves...

The fact that Villegas failed to do so blows a hole in your argument.

[jamo]

I voted yes because, well, I can't think of (and haven't heard) a good reason to vote no. Now, I'm not at all the type of person to call in a rules violation (and I don't know the rules nearly well enough), but if other people want to, they can be my guest

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

Now if only the refs at NBA games would listen to me when I angrily gesticulate the traveling motion after a BS no-call!

I tell my dad every time he yells at the TV after a bad call that the refs can't hear him. I guess if we're watching golf (and for some reason he has the PGA Tour on the phone), they actually can!

[ElWagonne]

Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith

What if someone watches a highlight 2 years later of an event and noticed that a penalty was missed and calls it in.  Should that player be DQ'ed 2 years later?

I agree with this sentiment.  I could possibly see if this was seen live, someone calls in and they pull Camilo over to the side and tell him of his violation.  If I see Lebron travel in an ESPN highlight, can I call into the NBA office, get the 2 points retracted and the like?

[jamo]

Originally Posted by ElWagonne

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deryck Griffith

What if someone watches a highlight 2 years later of an event and noticed that a penalty was missed and calls it in.  Should that player be DQ'ed 2 years later?

I agree with this sentiment.  I could possibly see if this was seen live, someone calls in and they pull Camilo over to the side and tell him of his violation.  If I see Lebron travel in an ESPN highlight, can I call into the NBA office, get the 2 points retracted and the like?

No. And the question's already been answered. There is a huge difference between the two situations too. In golf, if you get a 2 shot penalty, the rest of your round isn't changed (you don't have to tee up 5 yards back on the next tee or anything). In basketball, if you call in, the entire game is changed. Say you called in after seeing LeBron get fouled on his way to a dunk. What if Lebron missed the second free throw, rebounded the ball, and then drained a 3? Do you erase all 4 points because if hadn't been given the foul call he wouldn't have gotten the ball back, barring an offensive rebound? Way too many variables.

[Aquaguru]

I voted no I don't call the NBA and tell them LeBron took an extra step when he dunks it everytime, or the NFL when I lineman is clearly holding and gets away with it.  However, I do feel that Camillo should have said something.  If you see the tape I don't think he knew that he did it.  I think he was just more frusturated than anything, it doesn't make it better however, and I don't know how the walking official didn't see it Camillo was the only one in action at the time.

[ElWagonne]

Originally Posted by jamo

No. And the question's already been answered. There is a huge difference between the two situations too. In golf, if you get a 2 shot penalty, the rest of your round isn't changed (you don't have to tee up 5 yards back on the next tee or anything). In basketball, if you call in, the entire game is changed. Say you called in after seeing LeBron get fouled on his way to a dunk. What if Lebron missed the second free throw, rebounded the ball, and then drained a 3? Do you erase all 4 points because if hadn't been given the foul call he wouldn't have gotten the ball back, barring an offensive rebound? Way too many variables.

I beg to differ....I give you Ian Woosnam back in the Open (don't quote me on the year), he was contending and got called out for having too many sticks.  Upon finding out, his mental was so thrown off, he went like +4 for the next 3 holes and was out of it that quick.

[iacas]

Originally Posted by Aquaguru

I voted no I don't call the NBA and tell them LeBron took an extra step when he dunks it everytime, or the NFL when I lineman is clearly holding and gets away with it.  However, I do feel that Camillo should have said something.  If you see the tape I don't think he knew that he did it.  I think he was just more frusturated than anything, it doesn't make it better however, and I don't know how the walking official didn't see it Camillo was the only one in action at the time.

The NBA (or NFL, or MLB, or NHL, etc.) argument holds no water. None. Those sports have referees or umpires, and if they miss something, the game goes on.

In golf, the players are the referees, umpires, etc. They're solely responsible for their score at the end of the day and solely responsible for their actions.

It's a stupid analogy to make. In the NFL "if you ain't cheatin' you ain't tryin'" and that attitude obviously doesn't fly in golf.

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by Aquaguru

I voted no I don't call the NBA and tell them LeBron took an extra step when he dunks it everytime, or the NFL when I lineman is clearly holding and gets away with it.

Originally Posted by ElWagonne

If I see Lebron travel in an ESPN highlight, can I call into the NBA office, get the 2 points retracted and the like?

An NBA team will typically average 20 team fouls per game, not including turnovers resulting from traveling, carrying, stepping out of bounds, etc. The number of rules infractions per game between both NBA teams is probably somewhere between 70 and 80. And I'm only talking about the rules infractions that are called by the refs.

In a four day golf event, the total number of rules infractions resulting in penalties could probably be counted on no more than two hands.

Comparing the two is apples and oranges.

[Dartguy]

I looked for a Hell No button but could not find one. Anyone that would call in a penalty is a complete douchebag!

[JetFan1983]

Originally Posted by Dartguy

I looked for a Hell No button but could not find one. Anyone that would call in a penalty is a complete douchebag!

Are you calling me a douchebag? That's nice.

[Zeph]

I voted yes. These guys are playing for millions of dollars, if someone is cheating, they deserve getting penalized. Cheating is cheating, regardless if it is noticed or not. Anything that helps point out players that cheat is a good thing, helps keep the integrity of the game up.

There are of course players cheating, knowingly or unknowingly, but since when did one violation make another one OK? Is cheating ok as long as nobody notice? No. Anyone that cheat should be penalized, end of story. If you noticed yourself, a playing partner, rules official, caddy, spectator or TV-spectator doesn't matter, the point is to remove as much cheating as possible.

The rules of golf are extensive and they are the foundation for our game. They prevent us from doing some things and help us in some events. They represent the integrity of the game and we should all strive to play to them. Some rules may seem silly, but they are made to make the game as fair as possible.

If anything, this incident gave us a heads up on a rule we might not encounter too often.

[jamo]

Originally Posted by ElWagonne

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamo

No. And the question's already been answered. There is a huge difference between the two situations too. In golf, if you get a 2 shot penalty, the rest of your round isn't changed (you don't have to tee up 5 yards back on the next tee or anything). In basketball, if you call in, the entire game is changed. Say you called in after seeing LeBron get fouled on his way to a dunk. What if Lebron missed the second free throw, rebounded the ball, and then drained a 3? Do you erase all 4 points because if hadn't been given the foul call he wouldn't have gotten the ball back, barring an offensive rebound? Way too many variables.

I beg to differ....I give you Ian Woosnam back in the Open (don't quote me on the year), he was contending and got called out for having too many sticks.  Upon finding out, his mental was so thrown off, he went like +4 for the next 3 holes and was out of it that quick.

So he was affected mentally. My point was the in the NBA (or the NFL, or the NHL), changing a ruling is impossible because each ruling effects the immediate gameplay. In the NBA, whether or not a foul is called effects who has the ball. The second play starts again, that can't be changed. It's in the book, it's history. That isn't so in golf. Like others have said, golf is much different, and comparing it to other sports is pointless.

[WUTiger]

Quote:

I vote no, unequivocally.  A viewer at home has no business interfering in a tournament.  The players and officials are plenty of eyes on the situation.

Also, the spectators and the TV viewers may not see "the whole action." It reminds me of the shortlived TV show, Boomtown , another LA cop show. In this one, every crime or disturbance was replayed from the viewpoint of diffferent people. Not everyone saw "the same thing."

Also, how would the PGA process such notifications? What if it happened off-camera, and it was the pro vs. the spectator? Are we going to get members of the Moral Majority unfairly trying to target Tiger for past indiscretions, or a Boston-area Daughter of the American Revolution trying to sabotage an English player?

The turmoil and ill will this would cause is much worse than any instances of cheating it might uncover. Plus, PGA players have a pretty good track record of obeying the rules, and self-reporting violations which lead to disqualification.

Sorry iacas, this would be a clear example of the "Wisdom of the Crowd" gone wacko.

[Dartguy]

So are you that guy that calls in?  If so, well.....

Originally Posted by JetFan1983

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dartguy

I looked for a Hell No button but could not find one. Anyone that would call in a penalty is a complete douchebag!

Are you calling me a douchebag? That's nice.